us brodie helmet US WW1 and WW2 Brodie Helmets and Maker Stamps

[dmg4]

I have acquired a helmet that appears similar to a US M1917, but bears no makers mark or heat stamp that I can find.  There are traces of blue paint on the sides of the outer shell, the remnants of which might outline a triangle if you have a few beers and squint really hard.  The X-pad for the crown of the skull appears to be a foam rubber with leather covering.  Pads to which the leather headband is attached are hard black rubber guled to the inside surface of the inner shell.  The chinstrap is elastic, which I have not seen before.    Any ideas as to maker, model, and...?

[leon21]

Welcome to the forum, these helmets were made for the Belgium Army from 1949 - 1952.

The shells are not marked but the liners are stamped with all the information you need.

Here is an example  of how they are stamped.

Stamped would read  ABL = Armee Belge/Belgissche Leger, ( Belgium Army Issue ).

1949 = Model.

XB = Manufacturer ( Xavier Buisset Vilvoorde ).

1950= The year of production.

You can find the stamp mark on the liner cross bands, if you look on the British Brodie

post on page 10 there is the same helmet with a photo of the stamp mark.

 

[dmg4]

Thank you leon21 for  the spot-on ID!  The marks you described are exactly where you said they'd be.

This is not the helmet I was looking for  Is anyone here interested in a trade (+?) for a US M1917 of M1917a1?

[dmg4]

Belay that previous comment about not wanting to keep this one.  I'm warming up to it.  I'll continue the search for a WWI-era salad bowl.

 

[leon21]

Yes it's a nice looking helmet in very good condition, I can see why you would want to keep it.

Good luck in your search.

[Tony44]

Good morning,

I have this early brodie helmet from 1915. Seems that the manufacturer/supplier is not common ? 

"AC3 / EV " 

 

[Tony44]

[Gildwiller1918]

Definitely British or commonwealth made, not US, you can tell by the chinstrap lugs, US ones were riveted. From 1917 onwards they used the rubber ring for cushion, not familiar with the codes. Leon might know more.

[leon21]

Yes we think the Maker mark is for W & E Viener Ltd of Sheffield.

[Tony44]

16 hours ago, leon21 said:

Yes we think the Maker mark is for W & E Viener Ltd of Sheffield.

Hello Leon and GildWiller, 

As we talked about yesterday, « AC » may be for «  Allen & Co » but since this supplier only used « A » on my knowledge, it could be a transitional marking, or anything else, but anyway it should have been applied for a short period of time I guess.

[leon21]

Yes I would agree Allen & Co seems the most likely Supplier for this early helmet, the same as E Viener Ltd who later dropped the E  and  only used the letter V afterwards.

I must admit these are rare stamp marks that have not been seen before.

 

 

[Gildwiller1918]

Here is a new M1917 I picked up, it is getting hard to find stamps/heat codes I do not have yet.  This one has an intact chinstrap, but missing the liner, it is stamped: UC 317.

[Gildwiller1918]

Found another M1917m this one is marked ZD 182, missing the liner, but has the chinstrap. The stamp was struck so hard it shows through the other side. 

[Gildwiller1918]

Found Another M1917 that I did not have, this one is stamped: ZJ 256, that will put me at 105 helmets so far on the US made ones. Will post images once it arrives. It really is getting hard to find ones I don't have a reasonable price, the last few years they have skyrocketed in prices. 

[aef1917]

ZJ isn't terribly common.  

WA

ZA

UB

ZB

UC

ZC

ZD

ZE

ZF

ZG

XH

ZH

YJ

ZJ

L

ZM

ZN

xCCo

And there are the weird one-off lots like ZAO and ZC45X.

Which are you missing?

 

 

[Gildwiller1918]

Looking at your list I do not have any of the WA, UB, L, xCCo or ZM helmets. Got plenty of the others.

[Gildwiller1918]

Found another M1917 helmet, this one has a partial M1917A1 Kelly liner, it has several coats of various paint colors. It is marked ZC 210

[Gildwiller1918]

Here is another M1917 I found recently. It is marked: ZJ 256

[Gildwiller1918]

Found another M1917, missing the liner, but has the chinstrap intact, marked " ZC 250".

[stuckinmcr]

Thank you.

 

[Gildwiller1918]

Hello stuckinmcr, you have a WW1 British made helmet, the British used split pins on the chinstrap bales, whereas US made ones were riveted. The emblem is that of the US Army of Occupation which ran from 1918-1923. It was common for US troops to have British made helmets at the time. I can't really make out the stamp along the inner rim. 

[leon21]

Welcome to the forum Stuckinmer, yes the helmet is British  made as Gildwiller said.

It dates from 1917 as it appears to have a rubber ring under the skull felt pad this was the year it

was introduced. At the same time the habit of painting the unit's formation patch onto the front

or sides of the helmet began.

The maker stamp could be a miss-stamped HS for Hadfield Ltd of Sheffield who was both Maker

and Steel Supplier, there should be a heat batch lot code number stamped after the HS stamp, you

could try lightly rubbing fine wire wool or sandpaper around the marks to see if there are any other marks.

Take a look on the under side of the liner to see if there is the red war office pattern stamp.

Hope this helps.

[aef1917]

3 hours ago, leon21 said:

could try rubbing fine wire wool or sandpaper around the marks to see if there are any other marks.

 

Doing this might provide information that is of interest to approximately six people on Earth and would significantly reduce the value of the helmet.

[Gildwiller1918]

I typically use talcum powder to highlight the stamps, this way is does not damage the finish or remove any paint.

[leon21]

Yes I forgot about the talcum powder, my memory is not what it used to be sadly.