us brodie helmet US WW1 and WW2 Brodie Helmets and Maker Stamps

[Gildwiller1918]

I'm right there with you Leon on the memory!

[Chuck K.]

I'd like to ask your help identifying and dating the components of an M1917 / M1917A1 helmet that I own.  The helmet is stamped with heat lot ZA226, indicating manufacture by the Crosby Manufacturing Co. of Buffalo, NY. Is there any way to approximate the manufacturing date based on that lot number? My second question deals with what I assume is a maker's mark on the suspension. It looks like a very neat and tiny E.T.P.  At first, I thought this to read E.T.R, but upon closer inspection I believe that the "R" is actually a P followed by a period.  This looks too neat to have been done by a soldier. Is this a maker's stamp, and if so, can we identify the maker?

[Gildwiller1918]

The helmet shell was made for use in WW1, as the US ramped up production of war materials such as helmets, we used British made ones. After the war ended, we had a surplus of materials that were sold off or put into storage. These helmets were used until new ones could be made for the 1917A1 liner. As far as the lettering goes, it is my opinion they were for the user at the time. It is very common for soldiers to mark their gear. It does appear neatly done, but if you magnify the image, you can see the lines on the letter E are not consistent with say a punch or a stencil. 

[Gildwiller1918]

Found another M1917 shell, this one is marked 217 ZD.

[Gildwiller1918]

By the way I used a chalk stick to highlight the letters/numbers. It wipes off easily and does not mess up the metal or finish.

[Gildwiller1918]

Picked up another M1917 Helmet shell, this one is marked ZE33. No texture or much of the original paint left. I have primed it for a new paint job and texturing. 

[leon21]

What colour are you going to paint it.

[Gildwiller1918]

A vendor that I deal with has a paint that they claim is a historical match, so going to try it out and see how it looks. 

[Gildwiller1918]

Found another M1917 shell, this one marked "XHD", no liner or chinstrap. 

[herche54]

Hello. First time user.

I have a helmet to ask questions about but I am unable to insert an URL.

It is      c:\users\billp\onedrive\documents\documents\documents\british helmet      on my desktop but nothing happens other than the background of my insert turns a light pink as if to indicate an error. Please explain to me what I am doing wrong.

Thanks, Bill

[herche54]

I have a helmet that was found years ago in a dumpster (bin) outside Philadelphia Pennsylvania, USA.

It measures 12” across, 1 and ¾” brim, 4 and ¾” high and weighs 2 pounds, 8 ounces.

The only marking that I can find is FS 90 with the 9 (if it is a 9) lightly stamped. Through this forum, I believe FS stands for Thomas Firth & Sons Ltd of Sheffield.

I would be thrilled if someone could find when and where this helmet was used.

Thanks.

 

[leon21]

Welcome to the forum Herche54, what you have is a WWI shell made by Thomas Firth and Sons made between 1916 - 1918  with a WW2  British made liner

made around the 1940s. If you look inside the liner at the metal crossbands there should be a makers stamp and date on one of them.

[herche54]

After removing the helmet crossband for an inside look, I see on one of the bands a stamped 7 and an imprinted white arrow in a white circle pointing toward the top. Also, while removing the screw, some rubbing occurred, and the color red showed inside the screw slot. Do they provide extra clues as to this helmet’s history?

 

   

[leon21]

the No 7 will be the size, are there any stamp marks on the other side of the crossbands.

[herche54]

Took some doing but on the underside of one of the bands were lettering. From top to bottom, they are:

7

VMC

II

_____

1942

 

 

I gather that the lettering describes the liner where 7 is size, VMC is Viceroy Manufacturing Company based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, II for MK II, Year is 1942

Is this a rare helmet?

[leon21]

No not rare, looks like this helmet may have belonged to a Canadian soldier in WWI  and later refurbished with new chin strap lugs, and new Chinstrap and

new liner. Hard to say were it saw service in WWI or WW2 with out knowing who owned it when it was issued. But a great find never the less, how it ended

up in America is another story, can I ask what you intend to do with it,  restore it as a WW1 helmet or leave as it is.

[aef1917]

That's what is known as a Mk. I* helmet, and they're not terribly common.  This is the first Canadian one I've seen, so I'd think they're fairly rare and I'd leave it as is.

[leon21]

I beg to differ this would not be classed as a MK. I* Helmet but rather a miss-matched one, I agree that the shell may be  rare but not the liner which is a MK. 2

variant made for the MK. 2 shell.

In 1936 the MK.I* helmet was fitted with a new and improved liner  which had a oval pad which was attached by 4 rivets,  and a Elasticated or sprung webbing 

chinstrap was added, this final variant served until 1939/40 when it was superseded by the slightly modified MK. 2 variant, and also the helmet and liner were 

date stamped. I have 2 Mk.1* helmets and the chinstrap lugs are much smaller thinner  and more oblong and held by brass rivets, and the liner straps are mark

with the size the maker and a I for MK.I.

[herche54]

I apologize for my slow response. Had trouble trying to logon.

The helmet belongs to a friend and he is not computer savvy. He does want to sell it

My plan is leave the helmet alone and not restore as I feel patina means a lot to a collector.

I'll probably auction it off on eBay and maybe start with $50

[David Jeeves]

Purchased a M1917 Brodie Helmet . All look’s original. Any idea of the manufacturer  please XHO . Thanks in advance 

[Kenny Andrew]

Hi David, do you have some pictures? 

[Medic]

I got this Great War Brodie with the intent to replace the liner with a new PLFCo one. The old liner only had the asbestos pad and rubber donut in it. When I removed the pad, I noticed these numbers painted in red. It looks like there is a letter to the left of the rivet hold that may be a W? Possibly one or two letters that have worn off further to the right. The readable numbers go "3025."  I haven't seen numbers painted on the inside under the liner before.

Does anyone know what they mean?

Brim stamp is a Hadfield "HS 75."

[leon21]

Welcome Medic, yes one of  Hadfields helmets can't say I've seen painted numbers  before either,  no idea what they mean.

[aef1917]

A lot of collectors use "heat number" and "lot number" interchangeably, but they were two different things.  The numbers painted inside are the actual steel heat number, which was linked to the lot number stamped into the helmet brim.

[Littlebuddy]

This helmet came into my possession recently .

Any help as to ascertain its history etc would be most helpful and deeply appreciated.

LB