How to tell if a Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Class is Real or Fake?

[berg]

4 hours ago, Kenny Andrew said:

Welcome to the forum Berg, the cross is original, but just heading out now so can't check the maker, Fritz should be able to identify it for you, he is very good with WW1 German items. 

 

19 minutes ago, Fritz said:

It's an original. The paint on the edge is nothing other than silver tarnish/patina, the core is made of iron. I would not clean it or do anything, the ribbon is also original. The W on the ring could be Wilm or Wagner, both well known makers.

Thanks for the welcome, and thank you both for the info. "Wagner" would explain why that was listed in the auction. Great news about the cross and the ribbon being original.

Not that I plan on getting rid of this, but curious if I got it for a half decent price. What do they typically go for in this state?

[Fritz]

Prices can range from about 45 to 60 Euros. Twenty years ago I bought a 1914 second class with ribbon for 10 Marks in East Berlin.

[Fritz]

On 14/09/2021 at 00:53, berg said:

 I recently picked up my first batch of medals from a local auction. A 1914 2nd class iron cross was among them. I have a feeling it's a reproduction, but don't really have any way to check as I'm incredibly new to this.

First it's magnetic; am I supposed to check if certain parts of it are magnetic or not?

Secondly, I can see the edges of the ribbon seem to have that horizontal threading (forget what's it's called) which I hear is a good sign

Finally, the outer edge seems to be painted which I'm not seeing on a lot of online pictures of legit medals.

Pics attached, any help is much appreciated.

This topic is in the wrong section - it does not belong under Third Reich Decorations, but under "Imperial..." Why do people get everything mixed up?

[berg]

On 16/09/2021 at 07:08, Fritz said:

This topic is in the wrong section - it does not belong under Third Reich Decorations, but under "Imperial..." Why do people get everything mixed up?

Good point, and question. If your question isn't rhetorical;

This thread actually shows up in a google search when researching the legitimacy of Iron Crosses specifically, nothing to do with Third Reich. When getting to this thread through Google, it's not clear which section of the forum it's part of since you wouldn't be browsing through the forum to find it. In addition to that, when reading through the thread there are multiple pictures of non Third Reich crosses already posted. I think the problem may get worse now that another (from me) has been added.

That's exactly how I came across it and I didn't even notice which section of the forum it was in until it was pointed out. The topic info I saw was about 1st and 2nd class Iron Crosses as the title states.

To avoid this down the road, I'd make two suggestions:

1. Move this thread into a 'general' section and add links to it from Third Reich and Imperial, etc.

or

2. Revise the title of the thread title and add "(Third Reich only)" or something to that effect. Then it would be clear when coming from Google that this is only related to WW2 era. It would probably be best to pull my and CocoRentini's posts out of here if so.

I suppose there may be a 3rd option if you could somehow get Google to not list this thread when searching for just Iron Cross, but that sounds pretty complicated and not likely to last.

If the question is rhetorical, well, then, ignore everything I just said.

[Kenny Andrew]

Hi Berg, thanks for the feedback, I will have a look at this at the weekend as at work just now. Two good ideas there, also maybe time to create a new forum just for Iron crosses?   

[Fritz]

Good question. A new forum just for iron crosses would be absurd. Why can't people just find a simple solution for a simple topic? Es kann doch nicht so schwer sein, you have iron crosses from 1939 and all other previous iron crosses from 1813 till 1914, which have a crown, is that so difficult? Just a question of historical logic.
At present we have a section for "Third Reich decorations" only and one for "Imperial German and other Nations", surely that should be sufficient, and must be clear to everyone. All just a question of logic and common sense.

[Kenny Andrew]

I agree an Iron Cross section would probably be unnessesary, however Berg makes a good point, people coming from search engines will only see the thread and not the actaul forum. I think the best option is for me to move any items that are not in the correct forum. It's no problem to do, Fritz if you see anything in the wrong section just message or email me and I will move it. Good to discuss this anyway as I know this has happened in the past.     

[Fritz]

Agree, will do.

[Kenny Andrew]

So I've looked at this thread and a few others and really the Imperial and Third Reich Iron Crosses seem to be pretty much mixed together. If I were to split the content I think it would ruin the threads. I've decided the best way forward is to create an Iron Cross Forum, it might take time to find all the Iron Cross threads but I think it will be worth it and make a good new forum. If I miss any you can let me know.  

[Fritz]

I think now with the new iron cross forum, people will not even bother to look at other decorations.

[Kenny Andrew]

I don't think it works like that now Fritz most of our traffic comes from Google so the awards that people search for will take them to the correct thread. Once they are familiar with the forum they will work their way through all the forums and the unread content button will take them to the other decoration forums eventually. I've looked at the stats and your Imperial posts are getting about 2,000 views on average compared to the Iron Cross posts which are getting about 500 views on average, so there is certainly more interest in the other decorations. Because people are not posting in these threads does not mean they are not being read. In fact the stats for the your Imperial posts are pretty impressive.         

[Dilyan]

Could somebody help me to know if this iron cross if fake or original?  I want to buy one but I'm not an expert so I can't really decide.

[Kenny Andrew]

That one looks OK 

[Dilyan]

14 minutes ago, Kenny Andrew said:

That one looks OK 

Hello, really thankful for sharing your opinion, should I buy it? Best regards, Dilyan

 

[Kenny Andrew]

Its a pretty basic cross, depends on how much it goes for. We have a really nice one in stock at the moment which still has it's frosting and is court mounted. 

Here is a link

https://www.treasurebunker.co.uk/ww1-imperial-german-iron-cross-2nd-class-c2x11399446   

[Dilyan]

5 minutes ago, Kenny Andrew said:

Its a pretty basic cross, depends on how much it goes for. We have a really nice one in stock at the moment which still has it's frosting and is court mounted. 

Here is a link

https://www.treasurebunker.co.uk/ww1-imperial-german-iron-cross-2nd-class-c2x11399446   

Hello, It goes for 106$ and i wanted to make sure it's original and not a reproduction. 

[Kenny Andrew]

$106 is about £80 which is quite expensive for that cross , we would sell a cross in that condition for about £55- £65  which is about $70 -$85 

[Dilyan]

19 minutes ago, Kenny Andrew said:

$106 is about £80 which is quite expensive for that cross , we would sell a cross in that condition for about £55- £65  which is about $70 -$85 

Well I'm from Bulgaria and here you can't find such crosses that often, maybe that's why the price is around £20 above. 

 

[Kenny Andrew]

Yes that's true so with shipping it probably works out about the same 

[Dilyan]

9 minutes ago, Kenny Andrew said:

Yes that's true so with shipping it probably works out about the same 

Yea, overall I'm really thankful for your opinion, i was really curious if it's genuine or not. 

[Jewelx]

Hi from Cleveland, Ohio here. Thank you for reading. I was curious about this pin, I found it in the garbage amongst a container of CD's. I read through a lot of the information provided but am leaning toward what I feel is a conclusion. I'd appreciate any thoughts and may all our journeys remain curious! 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hRbiyvnUxvQxkgGAA

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wgXLkaBisNX2P6Cy9

[Kenny Andrew]

Hi there,  could you post a picture of the front of the cross please, also what is the number on the pin as it's very hard to make out in the photo. Would also be easier to view if you could add the photo to the post rather than linking them. I've posted the reverse for you.      

[WillMadd]

I recently bought this iron cross from a seller, is it most likely real or fake?

[Kenny Andrew]

Very unusual to see the 800 stamped on the frame, these are normally marked on the ring. I believe the jury is still out on these crosses.  

[Eddieq]

I haven’t commented earlier as there are more experts on this forum on Iron Crosses than me, and I only comment on my direct experience about these items - I have one very similar (stamped on the frame ,that I bought in a job lot of items a few years ago) and when I have shown mine to trusted,  more learned people than me, they have given me the same advice as Kenny (who is similarly very  experienced), stamping on the frame is not usual- 

 

E