How to tell if a Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Class is Real or Fake?

[Kenny Andrew]

Very hard to tell from those photos, do you have some close ups?   

[patrick chong]

Hey Gentemen,

I'm looking to strike a deal on the WW2 Iron Cross 1st class L/52 but I saw 4 different variations online, does all the hallmark L52 look different?  I have uploaded 4 crosses in the form of A,B,C,D.

I'm looking to get A, the description stated rare marker 20 & L52 Inside the needle.

Feel free to share your opinions on the hallmarks and the genuinity of the iron cross.

Thank You for the big help.

[Fritz]

Difficult to tell from the photos. I would ask a few more opinions. The last one with the 800 mark looks a bit suspect to me. Normally Iron Crosses of 1939 were not silver, 800 is a silver hallmark, I doubt if the frame is 800 silver, but I might be wrong.

[Kenny Andrew]

Hard to tell from those photos but C looks like a good double marked Zimmermann to me. A might be OK too but any I have seen have looked more like C. I agree D looks bad. 

[patrick chong]

Thanks for the reply Gentlemen, I'm looking to make my move on cross "A",  here is a closer look for Cross "A". Appreciate the final feedbacks 

 

[Kenny Andrew]

I would wait and get one which looks more like C with the accepted 20 and the standard Zimmermann pin, I've not come across a Zimmermann with a coke style pin before, usually they have the type of pin featured on picture C.       

[patrick chong]

On 22/11/2023 at 21:47, Kenny Andrew said:

Hard to tell from those photos but C looks like a good double marked Zimmermann to me. A might be OK too but any I have seen have looked more like C. I agree D looks bad. 

 

8 hours ago, Kenny Andrew said:

I would wait and get one which looks more like C with the accepted 20 and the standard Zimmermann pin, I've not come across a Zimmermann with a coke style pin before, usually they have the type of pin featured on picture C.       

Hey Kenny,

 

Thank You & Spot on! I've done some research myself, I realised 3 things, the hallmark, the hinge and the pin is different from a Zimmermann. Will look out for more!

[patrick chong]

Hey Gentlemen, while holding back, I think I found a Gem 

Description: "This medal comes complete with its original presentation case. Marked “26” to indicate production by the B.H. Mayer firm"
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kenny Andrew]

That looks like a good BH Mayer 

[Lavinia]

Hello. I hope I am posting in the right place.

I have a question about a WW1 Class 2 Iron Cross, if I may.

It doesn't have any markings on the larger ribbon ring, but it has a W engraved on the smaller ring. Is this something that can occur on authentic medals of this type?

[Fritz]

Can you post photos?

[Lavinia]

Hello Fritz. Yes, here they are. I noticed something on the other side too but I can't make it out.

[Fritz]

Haven't seen that before, but you you post photos of front and rear of cross?

[Lavinia]

Here they are. I did the tests recommended in this thread and it does check out.

[Fritz]

A perfectly good example with a lot of patina

[Lavinia]

Thank you for the assessment, Fritz! I guess it just has an usual marking.

[Xcvu]

I have one marked with an ,,u" in the exact same spot besides mine I've never seen another EK2 marked on the smaller ring.

[Fritz]

can you send detailed photos?

[Xcvu]

I'm about to arrive home and I'll post a picture of the marking.

[Xcvu]

Got it 1 year ago and it looked very interesting . It used to be mounted on a medal bar. Even if it was listed as an original I am still not convinced about it's authenticity .

[Hastriq]

I also have an EK2 with markings on the smaller ring. It's a 1939 version, so I don't know if it would be the same story as the earlier crosses, but it seems like some makers did add additional markings to the smaller ring. I'll post some pictures below.

Depending on how it catches the light, the mark on the smaller ring looks like either a fragment of an X, a kind of misshapen M, or some kind of ohm symbol, but like I said it's extremely hard to make out.

I posted it to another forum because the makers mark on the main suspension didn't line up with the font of that maker, and I had concerns about its originality...it's stamped "4" which would be for Steinhauer & Lück, but the style of the 4 doesn't look like any of theirs I've seen. The consensus there was that the cross looked original, and might actually be from maker "24" who were apparently known to have mis-struck or faint 2's on some makers marked examples. They also shared some other examples from that maker with additional marks to the smaller ring as well. I would be really interested to get people's opinions on this cross here, but if we agree that this one is original, it would certainly seem like there are genuine examples out there with marks on the smaller rings.

[Xcvu]

I'm not a big expert on ww2 ek2's but I don't think there is a big difference between these and their ww1 counterparts. Try checking if the core is magnetic it should stick and then try checking the silver frame it shouldn't be as reactive as the core and you can feel the difference. Also the swastika's edges should be sharp and not dull. On your cross you can see that the color of swastika faded in some points try to compare the color of those points to the one of the frame they shouldn't be the same as it would indicate a one piece construction. While for the markings  I did some research and they could be hallmarked just as their ek1 counterparts which may differ from a manufacture to another. Also try to slide a thin piece of paper between the frame and core it should slide in between. Hope this helps you.

[Hastriq]

Thanks Xcvu! Yes, I tested the core and everything and it seems to pass the tests. The core is magnetic, the frame is not, and it does seem to be a multi-piece construction. Not sure how to judge the sharpness of the swastika since it's got some wear to it, and the colour between the chipped swastika and the frame look similar given the tarnishing, but it's difficult to tell.

It's tough, I've done lots of research online about these crosses over the years, but I haven't had the chance to handle many that I know are real, so I'm definitely still finding my feet in terms of recognizing all the details and knowing what to look for. It's great to get the input from those who have much more experience with these things.

[Hastriq]

So what do you think, Fritz? I've followed this thread for a while, and am certainly interested to get your take on the cross above. Does it tick the right boxes for an original?

[Fritz]

original