How to tell if a Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Class is Real or Fake?

[Ex_Collector]

6 minutes ago, Kenny Andrew said:

L/54 with the stamp above the retaining catch is a known copy unfortunately, the quality of the beading is not what you would expect to see on a private purchase award. 

Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate the feedback!

[Rich_26]

22 minutes ago, Kenny Andrew said:

That's a strange one Rich, don't know if it's just the photos but the frame looks as if it has a chrome finish, is the frame silver? The ribbon appears to be original.  

Thank you for the fast reply! I have the cross under hard white light for more detail but might be making it look odd - I will seek out a silver test and report back.

Does anything else pop out of concern?

One of the closer matches I found online was from this post which really started the doubts, but I would rather the great experience here than 'bacuffz.com'

-RR

[Kenny Andrew]

Hi Rich, That's a quite useful post but unfortunately does not take into account the many different makers and variants, it's always difficult when there is no maker mark as you first have to try to work out who the maker is, and then if it's actually real. I have just checked every known maker especially the date styles which are a good indicator, unfortunately I could not find one similar to yours with the elongated 9's . So I would say this is a bad sign. The closest I could find with elongated 9's was made by Otto Schickle but as you can see this is still totally different. interestingly this is a one piece construction, so we now fake three piece construction Iron crosses and original one piece construction crosses! I would say your cross is either a post war Souval or based on a post war Souval design as these are the only crosses with the elongated 9's.             

[Rich_26]

Holy smokes what a rabbit hole, your experience here has been invaluable and I hope my example might help others.

The silver test did tarnish so I think that's a plus - but I can't see this as 100% genuine at this point, thanks again.

I now have larger concerns about a recently visited store in the UK too, as this isn't the first strike out!

 

 

 

[Ian_Kel]

It's a really good thread, this. If anything it's shown me how much there is to learn about Iron Crosses and just how little genuine knowledge I have of them (just enough to make a whole pile of mistakes). Thanks to Kenny and everyone on this thread who've shared their knowledge and photographs etc., it's appreciated.

[Kenny Andrew]

Thanks Ian,  Iron crosses can be very difficult especially when they are not maker marked   

[Ian_Kel]

It's the detailed knowledge of specific maker characteristics I lack. I'm a bit in awe of folk who can spot the different maker characteristics, differentiate one unmarked, or even marked cross from another. Years of handling experience and taking note always pays off, I guess.

I've always liked EK's, especially 2nd Class ones. I've had a few over the years, mostly all gone, but somehow I never quite got round to seriously collecting them, I just didn't look into them in as much detail as I now wish I had. They're lovely medals, I can understand why folk want to collect the variants etc.

 

[Gavin]

Hey everyone, I was wondering if this iron cross is real. The engraving seems to be fake but I wasn't sure if it was done on a real iron cross

[phantom]

have you silver tested it? quality does not seem to be there , the inscription looks very suspect 

[Eddieq]

I agree, the inscription is suspect, you can almost see where the patina was cleaned to add the inscription.

Would need to see more photos to comment on the actual cross.

[Gildwiller1918]

The inscription does look very suspect, certain letters especially. 

[Kenny Andrew]

Jasta 11 was the Red Barons squadron, made up of Air Aces. I can't find any mention of a Lt Heinz, even if there was, that type of engraving would not be what you would expect to see for a member of such an elite squadron, I don't like the look of the cross either.    

[Gildwiller1918]

It is not uncommon for unscrupulous sellers to fabricate or alter items to enhance prices. Doing your research will definitely help in the long run Gavin.

[Gavin]

Thanks for all the information everyone

 

[Ian_Kel]

This thread's encouraged me to look out the small number of Iron Crosses 2nd Class which I have, photographs attached.

I always liked the medal design and the history behind them but never quite got round to seriously collecting or studying them in the depth that perhaps I could, or should have. My knowledge of them has always been limited to looking to quality of construction, is it a multi-piece frame, a magnetic core etc. Beyond that I never really gained the in-depth knowledge of a true collector.

Here's the three I have, kept as examples really (I liked the ribbon on the 1914 one so held onto it for that simple reason). None of them are are maker marked, the central one has a non-magnetic core (I only realised that today when I got the magnet out).

[Ian_Kel]

Not the best of photographs, sorry but some close-up pics of the 1914 EKII... No maker marks on the ring, magnetic core, two-piece frame. I really liked its silk ribbon, that's pretty much why I held onto it for years.

[Ian_Kel]

The second one, a 1939 one with a three piece cross construction but with a non-magnetic core. It's very like the 1914 issued one in weight (quite a light-weight cross) and shape.

[Ian_Kel]

... And the third one. Again, like the other two medals it's not maker marked but with a distinctive "round 3" to the 1939 and 1813 dates to the obverse and reverse. I've no idea who made these?

It's a much heavier cross than the other two (well, in grammes, anyway) and the flat bits of its cross arms are a very different, wider shape.

[Fritz]

The round 3 is considered rarer than the standard 3, it can cost considerably more. No idea who the maker is.

[Hans Hamburger]

Looking to purchase this Iron Cross by Steinhauer & Lück can anyone tell me if this is legit or not? i've never purchased an iron cross before. is this a good quality iron cross:?

[Kenny Andrew]

That's a good one 

[Hans Hamburger]

17 minutes ago, Kenny Andrew said:

That's a good one 

Is it original? 

[Eddieq]

Looks ok to me

[Kenny Andrew]

Yes it is original 

[CarolusRex]

Hello, I recently bought an Iron Cross second class from WW1. Its pretty worn out and the ring is in pretty bad shape, i can not see any markings. What do you think?