british brodie helmet British & Commonwealth WW1 & WW2 Brodie Helmet Maker Stamps

[Zippy]

I just acquired a MKII Brodie, in cosmetically bad shape. The shell is sound, finish awful! There is some finish left under the liner, which appears to be an olive green/brown. The entire top & underside of the brim appears to have been mostly rubbed through, & a black paint applied. Over which was applied (with a rough tar brush) thick ,white gloss enamel.  A very neatly applied "W" in black, around 2 ½" high is stencilled on the front, above the rim. There are also traces of something applied in black at the back too. 

Unfortunately, later, someone else has rubbed the shell down (to a lesser degree) & sprayed on some olive green (NATO green?)

Under the white I found 2 rows of markings top row reads J.S.S.  4. All underscored.

Bottom row reads:-  HSJ 1939. No dots or underscoring. I believe the JSS is Joseph Sankey & sons, - anyone able to decipher the rest?

PS: No clue how to do the photo thing...

[Kenny Andrew]

Welcome to the forum Zippy, when you click on reply you will see a link at the bottom to choose files which you can use to upload your images.  

[leon21]

Welcome Zippy, the stamp marks on the bottom row is the batch lot code of steel used to 

make the shell and the year date it was made.

[Digno]

Hello 

Above Leon2 lists the known Makers of British Helmet Liners wit a TTC 1 being Teddy Toy Co.

TTC 1 = Teddy Toy Co Ltd. Dagenham.......................1939 - 1943.
 

I have a helmet with TTC 2 (!) liner marking which is not in the list. So most likely the same Cie, but different version ? 
Marking is a follows

7  1/4

TTC
    2
___
1940

Anybody any idea ?

Thx

 

[leon21]

Welcome Digno, 1940 was the year the MK2 helmet was introduced  into service so the 

liner stamp was changed from TTC.1 = MK1 to TTC.2 = MK2  for the new helmet shells.

hope this helps, I will alter the list thanks for reminding me.

[Will]

On 02/03/2018 at 10:47, Jacquiblue said:

I have one which is marked  B S 2 the B is over the top of the S and 2 to the right of it, i picked it up many years ago from a steam rally for silly pocket money ! still got £2.00 change from a tenner !

 

[leon21]

Yes a nice early WW1 rimless apple green helmet by W. Beardmore & Co Ltd of Glasgow

with a steel lot batch code 2.

[Hallibag]

12 hours ago, Will said:

 

Very nice! These helmets were in such short supply initially, I’ve long wondered how any apple green examples “escaped” service before they could be repainted olive drab.

[Xcvu]

Hello! I recently bought an mk2  helmet  and I'm not sure if it's original. The seller told me it is original and it was used by RAF personal. It has no markings but it has a liner(the liner is marked J.C.S&Wltd 1940). What appears to be 2 lines run across the helmet. Can anyone tell me if it is original? Is it common for ww2 helmets to have no markings? Many thanks.

[leon21]

Are the rivets flat on the inside of the helmet shell ?

[Xcvu]

Yes,they are flat.

[leon21]

Then this could be a private purchase  made helmet for civil or home front use, by one of the private

Companies, hence no maker marks. The liner is by J Crompton Sons & Webb Ltd of London.

The chin strap looks brand new, was it used by a member of the RAF is hard to say.

 

 

[Xcvu]

Thank you very much!I was concerned that it may not be from the ww2 period. Is it common for ww2 period helmets to have no markings?

 

[leon21]

Helmets made for the armed services had some kind of mark ie= makers,  batch lot steel code

or year date. some of the private companies did not bother stamping their helmet shells.

Later in the war maker marks were stopped and only batch codes or dates were stamped.

[Xcvu]

Thanks again! I appreciate you for taking your time answering my questions. Thanks for explaining it to me, now I'm looking to buy a combat one.

 

[leon21]

Now you'll have an idea what to look for good luck.

[TheDiggerDownUnder]

I feel bad re-opening this thread, but what does the number next to HS mean? Mine has 87. Cheers! 

[leon21]

Welcome to the forum, Hadfield Ltd of Sheffield is the maker 87 the steel batch lot

code number of steel used to make the helmet.

 

[leon21]

Update on the WW2 South African helmet I restored earlier, I wasn't 100% happy with the smooth

paint finish, so looked for a more textured paint finish instead.

I finally found one and re-sprayed the helmet again this is how it looks now.

Uploaded a new better image of the texture.

[leon21]

Came across this WWI helmet being sold as a US M1917, It is a British helmet stamped FS 101 made by

Thomas Firth & Sons Ltd of Sheffield with a batch steel lot code 101.

Nice looking helmet complete and in good condition.

Photo's from other sources.

[leon21]

                      ( Beware of Fake Stamp Marks )

Came across this nice looking helmet that has been refurbished, and has been done very well.

Until I looked at the maker stamp marks, they are so badly done they Looked fake to me, the

helmet shell is the 3 hole type which were of a lesser quality  and used by the home front services.

Here are some photo's of the helmet, below them 3 photo's of genuine stamp marks for this maker.

The helmet stamp marks are listed as  BMB 1940. Better view of these at the end.

Photo's from other sources.

Hope this is helpful to the new collectors.

[leon21]

Here's a helmet I spotted for sale, with a very scarce makers stamp mark for Clydesdale Stamping Co Ltd

of Dudley dated 1/1939 and batch code AP, liner size 7 by Vero II/1940.

Has a letter M = Messenger on front of helmet, condition is very good, the maker Clydesdale only made

helmets from 1939 - 1940. This is only the 2nd helmet with this stamp mark Iv'e

seen in the past 13 years of searching for helmet stamp marks.

Photo's from other sources.

[kenneth lamb]

Found this while searching the national archives online. It was only uploaded in 2022, so I am unsure if anyone has researched these documents. This company was a biscuit tin manufacturer. Possibly why the name "Tin Hat" came about.

 

When Huntley and Palmers were given orders to prepare basic rations and army biscuits by the War Office in 1914 the tins were provided by Huntley, Boorne and Stevens. Other items they manufactured during the war included cases for smoke bombs and some of the first steel helmets issued to British troops at the front. Due to the Quaker beliefs of Samuel Beaven Stevens, they would not make weapons.

This is the first reference I have seen , to this company actually making the first trench helmets.

[kenneth lamb]

So here it is. It is not a brodie. But could it be a prototype or one of Alfred Bates' spun helmets?. I have seen German, French and US WW1 prototypes. But I never seen an English/British one. Why? Because they were made and lost on the front.?

This came from the Argonne region of france. Only paint left is very faint and looks greyish, blue tint.?

It is completely round, no head shape.

But with a chin strap and wearing a soft trench cap, would fit fine. The bails look like adrian bales. Also it is magnetic, so cheap rubbish steel.

All ideas welcome. 25.3oZ 1.2mm magnetic steel, 28cm from edge to edge, rim is 4cm all they around, and the helmet is completely round.

[kenneth lamb]

Could it have been made just behind the trenches? Possibly by RE? Or is it just another huntley and palmer biscuit tin?

Edited October 18, 2023 by kenneth lamb