Gildwiller1918 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 No problem Leon, I am researching it now, I can say it's not a Divisional emblem, possibly a regimental one. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 Here we have a M1917 helmet stamped YJ 37 has 33rd Division emblem to front of helmet, still has its liner and chin strap. Photo's from other sources. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 Here we have another M1917 helmet stamped YJ 147 also has 37th Division Emblem to front of helmet, still has its liner and chin strap. Photo's from other sources. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 Here we have another M1917 helmet stamped ZC 56 also has 27th Division Emblem to front of helmet, still has its liner and chin strap. Photo's from other sources. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 Here we have 2 M1917 helmets which have the 91st Pine Tree Division Emblems on front of helmets both still have their chin straps but no liners one is stamped ZC 180 the other only has the letter Z showing but has a good example of the star shaped rivet used on these helmets. Photo's from other sources. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK72 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Hi there, I am new on this forum and I have a question about the M1917 I recently bought. Most of the liner and the chinstrap are missing, as is the rim. It doesn’t have a heat stamp as listed earlier in this thread but it does have a stamp that seems to be a manufacturers logo: NC CO. Does anyone have any thoughts on this one? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gildwiller1918 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Are there any other markings other than the NC co? Opposite side looks like there may be a faint mark, might be nothing, hard to tell from the photo. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK72 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Hi, thanks for your reply. I really don't think there are any other markings. I tried the baby powder but nothing showed up... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gildwiller1918 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Ok, thanks for looking. I don't have any info on the marking yet. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 15, 2020 Author Share Posted May 15, 2020 Welcome to the forum BK72, not come across a stamp mark like that before, you do find odd logo marks on British made Brodie helmets but not often. I've never seen any on American made M1917 helmets before, pity the rim has been removed, does it have the star shaped rivet on top of the helmet. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK72 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Thanks! The rivet in top is not star shaped, it is round. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 16, 2020 Author Share Posted May 16, 2020 Thanks for the photo, do the rivets holding the chin strap lugs look newish like the one on top of the helmet ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK72 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 I suppose so. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 Okay thanks for the photo's most helpful. Update 30.12 2020 The helmet you have is an early experimental test helmet made by the Crosby Company who had their own lot marks ie- KCco, NCco,and OCco, these were used to identfy the different heats of steel made. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 Here's another M1917 helmet stamped ZJ 213 still has it's liner which is stamped A.E. Little Co Boston, has no chinstrap but in good condition Photo's from other sources. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 Here's another M1917 helmet stamped ZC 221 has no liner or chinstrap but has the insignia of 35th Division on front of helmet. Photo's from other sources. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 Here we have another M1917 helmet stamped ZC 195 still has it's chinstrap and liner which has a faint makers mark also has a USMC metal badge on front of helmet. Photo's from other sources. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 Here we have another M1917 helmet stamped UC 304 still has its liner but no chin strap other wise in good condition. Photo's from other sources. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 Here we have another M1917 helmet stamped ZD 208 still has its liner but no chin strap. Photo's from other sources. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackjackJoe Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Hello, Can someone tell me about this helmet I've bought? Is it WWI vintage? Does the emblem look authentic for the 77th Liberty Division? What does the "ZF44" tell you? What kind of a liner should I look for, i.e. are good vintage ones still available? Are these readily available for this model? The provenance for this helmet is that the owner (?family of the original wearer?) had it wrapped in a blanket for decades in a closet of an old home and someone was hired to renovate it. He notified the owner and he said it could have it in payment for some of the work he was doing. Thank you in advance for your responses! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gildwiller1918 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Hello Blackjack Joe, first off, nice helmet. You re correct that it has the emblem of the 77th, a NY unit. The "ZF 44" stood the maker and steel lot. The "ZF: would be the maker and the "44" the lot number. However the abbreviations codes used for this have not been fully recovered to my knowledge. What you have is a US made M1917 helmet. These were more or less copied from the British model with some slight changes. It is hard to tell from the picture if the 77th emblem is authentic or not. Most M1917 helmets never saw action overseas, and just about all with the emblem painted were done so after the war for the occupational period or for parades. The liner consisted of a leather sweatband that was connected to the dome pad which had a wool pad for the wearers comfort. The liner also connected to the chinstrap assembly which started at the wool pad and was riveted into place at the top of the helmet. The helmet paint itself looks good. Original liners can still be found, however most are fragile and dried out. You could also go for the reproduction liners, which are easy to find, if you so choose. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 Welcome to the forum Blackjack Joe, nice looking helmet, thanks for posting the photo's. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackjackJoe Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Hello Gildwiller1918, Thank you for the detailed info! A friend mentioned that the emblem probably was painted on afterwards so I appreciate a second confirmation on that. I think I'll pursue a reproduction liner so I can wear this without 'guilt' at tearing up an old one. And Thank you to Leon21 for the welcome. You fellows certainly know your stuff about these helmets and I'm thankful you don't mind sharing that knowledge with a rube like me. All the best to both of you! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gildwiller1918 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Not a problem at all Blackjack Joe, if you need any more assistance, just let us know. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackjackJoe Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 I just found something interesting. The man I was named after, Joseph Ansel Cook (my great-uncle) was an engineer in the "308" (see the picture of his card of military service history) and he was from Dunkirk, NY. From other research I've done, I know the 77th was made up of the "307th and 308th Infantry Regiments." What I don't know is if Joseph's "308" as shown on his card was the same as the one comprising the 77th Division. So my question: Were engineers just part of a larger infantry regiment? OR, did engineers comprise their OWN, separate regiment? If they were just part of an infantry regiment, is it POSSIBLE that Joseph was indeed part of this larger 77th Division? If so, that makes this helmet of mine a little more interesting to have! But to confuse things a little, you can see that he served in the Meuse-Argonne campaign while I understand that the 77th Division fought in the Battle of Château-Thierry (but I don't know where else they fought). So would that disqualify him from possibly being in the 77th Division? Thank you in advance for any light you can shed on this! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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