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kenny andrew

New photos of Pz Rgt 39

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Here are some new photo's of my uncles unit, capturing things my uncle took photos from only from a different angle.These photos are new and not taken by my uncle

Art.Rgt.29.jpg

Pz.Rgt.39_38.jpg

TPIII_1ss.jpg

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now the photos my uncle took, I've been told these are the same tanks ,but have not actually compared them yet, what do you think?

webbe1.jpg

webbe2.jpg

kaisertank.jpg

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This one's even more interesting and belongs to my friend Akira who has the album belonging to Feldwebel Fraunbaum of Pz rgt 39.In the first photo the tank numbers are 621 and 623 , I think Erics tank was 622, correct me if I am wrong Dave? Erich also took a picture of 621 it's on the front cover of our book.

PR39_PzIV_623ss.jpg

1945.jpg

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This is where it starts to get crazy, also from Feldwebel Fraunbaums album , could this be Erich? Centre back row standing behind the officer, in fact is the officer Hauptmann Werner Pietch, Erichs friend? My photo of Erich on anti aircraft duty and my photo of Hauptmann Verner Pietch to compare, what do you think?

Fraunbaum_Gruppenfoto.jpg

flak.jpg

funker.jpg

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Great photos kenny.

 

I do not think the first and second set of photos are the same tanks. I could be wrong but they look too dissimilar to me. The locations the sit in look different and the panzer in your photos has some pretty obvious front damage that I just do not see comparable in the first photo set.

 

Same with the war graves, the first photos have helmets on the crosses and look field made in a hurry the second photo set has a nicely made and painted one.

 

 

Maybe, the first photo in your set is the rear tank from the first photo of the other set, both have hatches open in front, turrent pointed the same way and a grave in front of the turret.

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Nice Photo's Kenny.

 

I think the 1st and 2nd photo's of your uncle's are the same as the 1st photo in the 1st set. To me your uncle took

his photo's of the 2nd tank with the grave in front of the tank, if you look closely at the grave the helmet is on the

ground in the centre of the grave, also look towards the front of the tank you will see a piece of wreckage on the

floor between the grave and the tank, one to the left side of the tank and a large piece to the right of the tank, If

you look behind the tank you will see a truck passing on the bend of the road behind the tank.

 

The 2nd of your uncle's photo's of the grave is taken long ways which give's a very narrow view which passes

between the two bushes out towards the open fields behind.

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Thanks guys, I agree the second tank with the grave in front of it is the same tank in both sets of photos. The first photo seems to show something like a broken track which does not appear in the second but I suppose it could have been removed for re use, agreed the two bushes ,road , helmet on ground all match.

 

But do you think the group photo is of Erich? Certainly he has the same rank and seems to be standing next to his commander and friend Pietch, again if it is Pietch, certainly looks like Pietch's slim build and again this officer has Peitch's correct rank.

 

two photos of Erich and Pietch together, Erich is on the far right in first photo and far left on second.

pichic2.jpg

pichchic1.jpg

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I'm pretty sure it is them, the top photo Erich has the same Jaw line to his face and Pietch seems to be holding a cigarette at almost the exact same angle, what do you think guys?

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OK i've cropped Akira's photo and will add mine again, it's Erichs crew 100% certain man for man.

Fraunbaum_Gruppenfotocroppe.jpg

pichic2.jpg

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Yes I would agree it do's look like them. ;)

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Kenny, Having now looked closely at the photos I think the Panzer IV and grave is the same as the one in Erich's picture and in our book. There's slight differences in the tank but could be due to repair crews work.

 

As to the crew photos I'm not sure. It does look like Erich to the right of the officer. If the officer is Pietch he has no awards. If the guy is Erich he is an UO. When Erich had this rank I'm sure Pietch had been awarded something.

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hi dave, maybe I'm grasping at straws but I don't think so, maybe they were not wearing their badges that day as only one of them actally has awards on.

 

I've cropped the pictures again so we can compare.

group1.jpg

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to be honest I'm not 100% sure about the last two chaps but I would say the first four are definite , can we have some more opinions ,even if you think I'm wrong.

 

First picture , same jaw line

second picture ,long face

third picture, almost looks Italian

fourth picture, square face small nose.

 

they all even wear their caps at the same angle and hold the correct rank, plus there is no doubt that both sets are from pz regt 39 I think it would be very odd ,unless there were four sets of twins in Pz rgt 39.

group2.jpg

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Yes Kenny, with your clever cropping it looks more likely. The photo has enough guys to be a troop (zug) but not a kompanie. Was this Pietch's zug?

Do you know what Kompanie Fraunbaum was in?

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Another interesting point is a couple of the guys wear the early Panzer wrap with the large collars piped in pink waffenfabre. PzRgt 39 was a late raised panzer unit but some must have been issued with this.

Also note the regulation way of wearing the shirt collar outside the jacket.

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Hi Dave, yes I thinks it's them :o what does everybody else think?

 

I have asked Akira what company he was in , but have not got a reply yet.

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Stumbled onto a Russian forum webpage could.nt understand a word of it, but saw these pictures on it with the

 

 

 

 

words Panzer 1V/70 of 17th Pz Div Rgt 39...........I'd say the pic is c 1944/45.

post-3823-1316554156_thumb.jpg

post-3823-1316554182_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for posting these Leon.

 

They look like a Pz.Jg.r IV/70 that was knocked out by Czech Soviet T34s. There is a reference in one of the Panzerwrecks books but I don't have it to hand at the moment. I used (and credited) the reference in Kenny's uncle's book.

 

Pz.Rgt. 39 got this vehicle in place of tanks like many other units late in the war. You are right it was in 45 but I can't remember the exact date off hand.

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Looking at the Right hand photo we can see the fatal flank shot. These beasties had very thick frontal armour! And of course the powerful KwK 42 L70 gun of the Panther.

Note late pattern exhausts.

 

One of my favorite late war afvs. Very sleek and menacing.

 

Why did the Swiss use the hetzer post war and not this or the Jagdpanther? I suppose the Czechs could licence the basic vehicle 38t chassis?

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Been looking into the history of 17th Panzer Div, and the Order of battle and tank strenth at select times during their

operations in Russia.

 

Starting in June 41 with 202 tanks

By June of 42 their strenth was 65 tanks

By Christmas Eve 42 was only 8 tanks

On 1st July 43 was 67 tanks

On 20th July 43 was 67 tanks including 2 T34s

In Oct 44 recieved their first 17 Pz 1V/70 (A)s

In Nov 44 recieved 80 Pz 1Vs and Pz Vs (Panthers)

In Feb 45 had 16 Pz 1Vs. 31 JgPz !v/70s 2 PzBefs.

 

 

looks like they were in the thick of it more than once.

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Christmas 42 Erich was in one of those 8 remaining tanks after trying to relieve Stalingrad.

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Yes 17.Panzer Division was a very good unit and heavily committed to battle. Took part in the attempt to relieve Stalingrad and the Korsan pocket. Despite this they have not been well documented.

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Yes I agree it was just look at the number of awards 17th Pz Div reciecved.

 

 

Close Combat Clasp in Gold...............21.

Comendation of C and C of the Army..11

Comendation of C and C of the Army

For shooting down aircraft.................. 2

German Cross in Gold.......................164

Roll of Honor Clasp of the Army.........38

Knights Cross...................................27

 

 

A very good unit indeed.

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:D well said Leon.

 

Especially when you consider 17. Panzer Division was understrength for most of the war, eg only one tank abteilung the II Batalion.

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Came across these 4 photo's taken by a soldier of Kr.Kw.Zug.27 unit arond the Mius Region 1943 which was part of the

17th Panzer Division. not sure if it was a recon unit or a supply unit. I love the 4th photo of the Russian Family' must

have been a right couple of randy mare's by the number of children they have.

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post-3823-1317744290_thumb.jpg

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