david f Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Is this the main icon of The German Military? If so ,why have they stopped using it?? Surely the German Government cannot be that scared of offending people by awarding this medal for bravery? Now that German troops are being deployed to areas such as Iraq then surely they should be awarded a medal if they act bravely,just like everyone elses country? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I may be wrong here but I understand that the Iron Cross can only be awarded during times of war. Hence the 1870, 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 versions. Since Germany isn't at war it can't be awarded. I also think that post war they updated there orders and decorations and that they have a different system of awards now which doesn't include the Iron Cross. It's just too tainted. How can you award someone the same medal for gallantry in Iraq that was awarded for gassing millions of people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Andrew Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I'm not sure,I would'nt be surprised if the Iron Cross made a come back , it was awarded for bravery and not for carrying out war atrocities.I'm sure if Germany found itself in a war situation the Iron cross would be the perfect thing to recognise bravery in the field and as far as I know the German Army still use it on their tanks and the modern day Luftwaffe on their Jets. Its also one of the most stunning medals ever designed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I understood the criteria to be "Awarded for bravery before the enemy or excellence in commanding troops". Which makes it akin to our DSO. Whatever it was awarded for it is still tainted by association. Would you like to be the first Chancellor since Adolf to award the EK? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Andrew Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 This is a tricky one if it were not for the fact the German armed forces still use the Iron Cross as their Ensign then I would probably agree with you. To me the Iron Cross is more of a part of Germany's Heritage such as we have the kilt and glengary. It dates back to the days when Blucher wore his whilst riding to the rescue of the British when they were our allies and helping Wellington who lets face it had been practically beaten by Napoleon. I would totally agree with you if you were discussing bringing back the Swastika or Sigrune but the Iron Cross has a much longer history and was taken up like many other things by the Nazis rather than than being created by them. Much in the same way they continued to wear the First world war Stahlhelm style of helmet, that too could be considered tainted yet now is the most popular style of military helmet worn by allot of armies around the world most notably the US army. Hitler never designed the Iron Cross, he did however design the Volkswagen perhaps that should be considered more tainted? It would be interesting to hear what Chris thinks on this one being a Younger generation German . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 It would indeed be interesting to hear what Chris has to say. I personally don't have a problem with it but the world is full of left wing, wishy washy, diversity conscious socialists. They would. I disagree that the helmet is tainted in the same way. When you think of the Third Reich one of the first thing's that comes to mind is the Iron Cross. It's now so much associated with Hitler that the earlier awards of it pale into insignificance. We all know that it was instituted in 1813 during the Napoleonic period but how many others do. We are talking about a largely ignorant population here. We are talking about a population of a certain age who would struggle to name a third of the Countries in Europe!! They have learned their history from watching dodgy WWII war films which shows Nazi's stomping about Europe killing, raping and murdering the population and being awarded Iron Crosses for it. I would agree about the VW - especially Herbie. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Andrew Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Poor old Herbie , he has a lot to answer for,they should really have painted a moustache on him and given him an Austrian accent, So what do you think Chris, can you see the German Government ever bringing back the Iron Cross? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Evening, sorry for not writing you sooner but I had the last class tests for this year to do.... So what do I think about it?! This may get a bit longer text. First I have to say that living in todays' Germany and collection military items from WW2 or before is always a very controversial topic. Even my parents were afraid of me "becoming a Nazi" when I started with this hobby in 2004. Speaking in Germany about the topic of Germany in the 2nd WW is never easy, although we are nearly the 3rd or even 4th generation after "Adolf Hitler"s'. We DO still have the military service and the only opposite to do is a kind of "civil service" and I know that our Bundeswehr is still very conservative in her thinking and I think that most of the soldiers would be glad to were the Iron cross again. I don't know if you knew, but former german soldiers of WW2 who came in the new Bundeswehr were allowed to wear a "de-nazified" types of her WW2 awards, the so called "57er-awards". Today, none of them is still in the BW and so just people like us know that those awards were worn in the BW. Sometimes a german politican says something "neutral" about the 3rd Reich or the Wehrmacht and he has to go or at least say sorry to the jewish community or s.th. like this. A few weeks ago there were some scatches in our television programm and nearly 10 german newspapers brought it on her first page with negative comments. So, my final comment is that our nation is still "captured in its history" and I acctualy do not think that we'll be freed in the next few years and we'll always be guilty and I really can imagine the "chaos", a decision like bringing back the iron cross can cause here..... ..... but some people think different.... here you can see a petition which was created for bringing back those award and about 5100 people signed for it......but what are 5000 people in a opposite to 80.000.000 http://itc.napier.ac.uk/e-Petition/Bundest...?PetitionID=404 I hope I could help you Chris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Well bugger me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Agence France-Presse Published: Friday, March 07, 2008 A German conservative MP wants to reintroduce the Iron Cross as a military honour, arguing the emblem often associated with the Nazi regime has lived down its wartime past through its use on German military vehicles in the Balkans and Afghanistan. "I know that for many people, the Iron Cross is associated with the suffering of World War I and II," said Ernst-Reinhard Beck, a member of parliament for Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats and head of Germany's association of army reservists. "But today, when our aircraft and armoured vehicles are deployed in conflict zones or disaster areas, it also serves as a symbol of hope." The German Defence Ministry has no plans to reintroduce it as a medal, however. "The Iron Cross is not an option, not only because of its Third Reich connotations, but because it was awarded for war service and we are not a nation at war," a spokesman said. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Damn i really want an iron cross 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I thought that for a long time. Then I got one and swapped it for a badge, with Kenny, within 6 months. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I would give an arm and a leg for one 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Reece said: I would give an arm and a leg for one While I love the Iron Cross, they are rather common, it is not some super rare item. While certain cross varients and levels of award certainly are rare, WWI and WWII Iron Crosses can be found easily. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Yeah well its the price i find HIGH i mean 300 odd £ is alot for me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Andrew Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Reece, that one is a very nice example it's also in its case.We get uncased ones at half that price and 2nd class crosses with the ribbon half that again.First world war ones are about £45. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 But WWI Iron Crosses aren't as sexy as WWII ones. At the end of the day though it's a lump of metal. You can't tell who it was awarded to or for what reason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Andrew Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 That's half the mystery, the one in my collection used to belong to the Fuhrer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 But WWI Iron Crosses aren't as sexy as WWII ones. At the end of the day though it's a lump of metal. You can't tell who it was awarded to or for what reason. Yeah i agree that the ww2 ones are sexier but i dont think they are a lump of metal 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I'm the other way I'd rather have an Imperial one over a WWII item any day... own non at the moment but am thinking about it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STUKA STEVE Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 'I will show you where iron crosses grow' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Good film reference 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STUKA STEVE Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 My all time favorite war film Graeme! Simply Peckinpah at his best.No sentimental bullshit like that overrated Private Ryan bollocks! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Andrew Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 They finally brought one out Bundeswehr to award decoration for bravery for the first time. The German Bundeswehr will honour soldiers' acts of bravery for the first time in its history. Chancellor Angela Merkel herself will hand over the awards according to a press release of the federal government. In view of the fact that Merkel is in the mid of an election campaign where she wants to avoid Afghanistan-related debates at all costs, this is an interesting and important development. The Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung daily reports that four soldiers would receive the award for their service after a Taliban attack on 20th of October 2008. On this day, German soldiers were looking for a group of Taliban which had launched a rocket attack on the German camp in the provincial capital. When they were busy with securing two seized rockets, a suicide bomber sneaked up on their "Mungo"-vehicle and blew himself up, killing the German paratroopers Patrick Behlke and Roman Schmidt as well as five Afghan children. The "Mungo" caught fire due to ammunition storages which exploded again and again. At the risk of their lives, the soldiers were able to rescue a seriously wounded soldier immediately and stood by another one trapped inside the burning vehicle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 very interesting, I like the idea but the medal does not look all that great, they could have done a better job there 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LACKIE14 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 i have to agree with greg, it aint pretty. it may age well perhaps in fifty years with a nice patina who knows? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.