black troops in berlin

[LACKIE14]

I have read about the final days fighting in berlin

i.e troops from different nations fighting to protect the reich in the last days in berlin.

Is this photographic evidence of the coloured troops i have heard about.

 

lets know what you think, i don't think this is just the photograph

[STUKA STEVE]

Those guys are clearly white,look closely at their features.Also they are just dirty.look at their hands.

[RAF635SQ]

I am sure if Hitler had black troops he would of been slightly angry, remember the 1936 Olympics.

[leon21]

Sorry I think this photo is staged, look at the greycoat the two black guy's are wearing. There not the same as the

guy in front, If there were black troops in the german army,I'm sure they would'nt have been there long, Hitler or

Himmler would have seen to that.

 

 

It's probably a Russian propaganda photo.

[RAF635SQ]

I would not say its staged personally, There was a ton of this seen in Berlin in 1945, Leon. there was such a mix of uniforms its unbelievable. There was even reports of civilians taking up arms most likely probably in their everyday clothing. Young HJ's even took army uniforms to fight with.

[Kenny Andrew]

There certainly were African troops serving in the Wehrmacht whither they were in Berlin or not I don't know, here's a volunteer under Franz Wimmer-Lamquet with Sonderstab F, Major Felmy's Freies Arabien Division.

[RAF635SQ]

I never knew this till now, I wonder if any veterans survived the war?

[LACKIE14]

i cant help but think the second has clearly darker features to all others in the photo russian and germans, i'm sure that all the troops in the pic are dirty however the german troops before and after this pair look lighter even the ones emerging from the tunnel.

 

but we'll never know unless we get a clear close up of original pic.

i don't know if you can get a copy from the german archives.

[STUKA STEVE]

God guys come on they are white! Ive seen numerous photos like this,they are just dirty and certainly not staged!

[RAF635SQ]

I do think Steve is right, clearly just dirt there, and like i said as well, its not staged.

[leon21]

 

Agreed not staged. Been looking through some of my books referring to Foreign Legions who fought for Germany.

Though not black, were coloured troops, I refer to the Free Indian Legion, formed by captured Indian soldiers

serving with the British Army in North Africa.

 

Pic (1) a photo of an Unteroffizier of the Free Indian Legion wearing the German Army-issue Tropical Field-Service

Uniform and Field Cap.

 

Pic (2) Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel, reviewing members of the Free Indian Legion along the French coast

1944. All are wearing various models of the heavier wollen German tunics that were more appropriate for the

European climate. Note the various forms of headgear, including the turban worn by the Sikh.

 

Don't know if they fought in Berlin.

[STUKA STEVE]

We all know of the Indian legion and other non white units that were recruited by the Germans but no evidence has emerged or i would imagine will emerge that any fought in Berlin.Highly unlikely.

[mr bridger]

God guys come on they are white! Ive seen numerous photos like this,they are just dirty and certainly not staged!

.

Got to agree.

[LACKIE14]

We all know of the Indian legion and other non white units that were recruited by the Germans but no evidence has emerged or i would imagine will emerge that any fought in Berlin.Highly unlikely.

 

 

i think most of the indian legion was captured trying to cross the border into switzerland long before the fall of berlin.

i think if any black troops had been in berlin during the final fighting they may have been orderlies, cooks etc forced to take a gun.

[leon21]

There certainly were African troops serving in the Wehrmacht whither they were in Berlin or not I don't know, here's a volunteer under Franz Wimmer-Lamquet with Sonderstab F, Major Felmy's Freies Arabien Division.

 

 

 

Here's a few more pics of the Freies Arabian legion.

[leon21]

i think most of the indian legion was captured trying to cross the border into switzerland long before the fall of berlin.

i think if any black troops had been in berlin during the final fighting they may have been orderlies, cooks etc forced to take a gun.

 

Not sure on that the Free Indian Legion had over 3ooo members , they were reffered to as Indishes Infanterie Reg 950.

They saw service in the Netherlands, France and Italy, before their eventual withdrawal to Germany,and transfer to the

SS In November 1944 and Redesignation as the Indische Freiwilligen Legion Der Waffen-SS. Many survived the war and

served in the Indian Army, when India became Indepenent of the British Empire.

[LACKIE14]

Not sure on that the Free Indian Legion had over 3ooo members , they were reffered to as Indishes Infanterie Reg 950.

They saw service in the Netherlands, France and Italy, before their eventual withdrawal to Germany,and transfer to the

SS In November 1944 and Redesignation as the Indische Freiwilligen Legion Der Waffen-SS. Many survived the war and

served in the Indian Army, when India became Indepenent of the British Empire.

 

several histories on the legion state that after a stint on the atlantic wall, which was broken by the landings on d-day, the legion was involved in a fighting retreat all the way to germany, of the original 3000 i have no idea how many may have been left.

from what i understand, the remnants of the legion were captured by us and french troops whilst trying to march through the alps to switzerland and eventually shipped back to the british in india.

[Greg]

Wild speculation is being dove into here without many concrete facts. However, I agree the photo is of normal Wehrmacht troops that are filthy... in the fall of Berlin I doubt they had much time for a nice bath.

 

The photo is almost certainly not Indian troops in SS service, that idea should be separate and put to rest. Even a quick scan of sites shows the remnants of the Indian unit withdrew towards Germany and was captured trying to get into Switzerland. Of this they could not manage the 1.6 mile hike into Switzerland but we're trying to hypothesize that some then said 'sorry guys love your walk across the Alps to give up the war and stay safe but Berlin - that is where the fun is I'm going there' and then ran halfway across Germany, jumped into a trench to fight the Russians and was captured... mind you doing this without the main unit to assist them in transport, supply, positioning, weapons, etc.... we really are talking fantasy then.

 

If we want to talk war psychosis, the unit was raised and promised to fight for Indian independence, then spends the war not doing that and in the end decides to pull over the Alps to be safe in a neutral country rather than captured and what they must have known would be tried for treason (they were) but again a few say 'nah Hitler can still wallop the allies, I'm headed to Berlin to help'

 

Personally I'll eat my words if anyone can prove the Indians were in Berlin though and that Hitler actually died from eating a really hot curry.

[LACKIE14]

Wild speculation is being dove into here without many concrete facts. However, I agree the photo is of normal Wehrmacht troops that are filthy... in the fall of Berlin I doubt they had much time for a nice bath.

 

The photo is almost certainly not Indian troops in SS service, that idea should be separate and put to rest. Even a quick scan of sites shows the remnants of the Indian unit withdrew towards Germany and was captured trying to get into Switzerland. Of this they could not manage the 1.6 mile hike into Switzerland but we're trying to hypothesize that some then said 'sorry guys love your walk across the Alps to give up the war and stay safe but Berlin - that is where the fun is I'm going there' and then ran halfway across Germany, jumped into a trench to fight the Russians and was captured... mind you doing this without the main unit to assist them in transport, supply, positioning, weapons, etc.... we really are talking fantasy then.

 

If we want to talk war psychosis, the unit was raised and promised to fight for Indian independence, then spends the war not doing that and in the end decides to pull over the Alps to be safe in a neutral country rather than captured and what they must have known would be tried for treason (they were) but again a few say 'nah Hitler can still wallop the allies, I'm headed to Berlin to help'

 

Personally I'll east my words if anyone can prove the Indians were in Berlin though and that Hitler actually died from eating a really hot curry.

 

 

berlin caught in ring of fire??

[Dave]

It would have been a vegetarian curry!

[Fritz]

"Preußisches Liebesglück" painting by Emil Doerstling, 1890

Gustav Sabac El Cher, Militärmusiker, *Berlin, 1868, + Senzig, 1934.
He served in Füsilier-Regiment 35 in Brandenburg and with Grenadier-Regiment Kronprinz in Königsberg as Musiker/Kapellmeister.
After his death, his widow received a telegram from exile Kaiser Wilhelm II., and from Kronprinz Wilhelm. His widow died six months later.
His son, Horst (1908–1943) died on  the Eastern Front  as a Sanitäter with the Wehrmacht in the Kaukasus, the other son Herbert (1903–1963) survived the war. Below, Grenadier Regiment Kronprinz in the courtyard of the Königsberger Schloß, with Sabac El Cher second on the left.
The Kapellmeister of the Leib-Garde-Husaren-Regiment in Potsdam was also from Africa.

Hans-Joachim Marseille with his "batman", Mathias Letulu.

Measuring the features of a French Colonial Soldier after the fall of France, Summer of 1940.

It was not a question of sympathy, these "volunteers" were regarded as "brauchbares Menschenmaterial", in view of the enormous losses
which had been sustained in the course of the war. Some foreign nationals were excellent and reliable, others had a problem with discipline,
all just a question of the cultures and mentalities of the nationalities involved.

 

[Fritz]

This book was published about  ten years ago. The Autobiography of Hans-Jürgen Massaqoui
He was also in the Hitlerjugend! The title is rather provocative! It has also been filmed.

[Fritz]

Film can be viewed under:

youtube.com/watch?v=C1KPOuT7mlQ

 

[Fritz]

On 22/11/2011 at 18:11, leon21 said:

Sorry I think this photo is staged, look at the greycoat the two black guy's are wearing. There not the same as the

guy in front, If there were black troops in the german army,I'm sure they would'nt have been there long, Hitler or

Himmler would have seen to that.

 

 

It's probably a Russian propaganda photo.

Himmler had a fascination for India and all things Indian, he considered them to be Aryan (Indo-Aryan), and saw a connection between Sanscrit and Runen, however, the Legion Freies Indien - Azad Hind, was a washout, and they proved very unreliable.