Mg08 and Mg08/15 ammo boxes and accessories

[Gildwiller1918]

Below are some items associated with the MG 08/15.  The MG 08/15 was (in theory) a single man operated and portable weapon, however in reality it took about 3 men to operate, maintain and service the weapon. Crates of ammo were carried in wooden boxes loaded onto belts or into metal drums. Also water was carried in a condenser can, which was hooked up to the weapons water jacket. Typical rate of fire was around 450-500 rounds per minute. The weapon weighed in around 40 pounds, which seems quite heavy for a "portable" machine gun, but its predecessor the MG 08 weighed 143 without water. Below is a picture of the MG 08/15.

 

 

[Gildwiller1918]

Here is the wooden crate for carrying the 100 round detachable drum magazine (Patronenkasten 16) that attached to the right of the guns action. There were belts made for 100 rounds, but more often a 250 round belt was cut down to meet the need. However in a static role, the drums were not used and the 250 round belts were employed instead. One of the drums is marked "FRC" for its manufacturer, along with a number 5. The other drum has no visible markings. 

[Gildwiller1918]

Interesting note...a lot of these cans are coming out of France lately, it seems these weapons were used on the Atlantic wall to beef up defenses, there are a number of photographs to back this up as well. The WW2 repurposed versions are painted a shade of white to blend into the concrete emplacements. Below is an example of this from a internet site. 

[Gildwiller1918]

Here is the wooden box that held the 250 round cloth belt, there is a direction arrow to indicate the right way for the ammo to be facing. 

[Gildwiller1918]

Here are some more ammunition cans used for the MG08 and the MG 08/15. These are steel cans that have a divider (which is often missing today) that held 2 - 250 round belts. One on the left is original condition, the one on the right I have sandblasted, cleaned and repainted as it was rust covered. Note the differences in the handles...

 

[Gildwiller1918]

Here is a good set up of the MG 018/15 with accessories. To the left of the weapon are ammo cans, with a 250 round belt in the foreground. The weapon has a 100 round drum attached and two more close to the transit box. Between the weapon and 100 round drums is the steam condenser can that was used to keep the water jacket from overheating. A hose was connected from the water jacket to this can, when the water boiled off, the steam travelled to the can and eventually would turn back to water, thus allowing for a constant source of cooling. Troops on both sides used to get a little of the boiling water out for tea and coffee. To the right and bottom is a wrench used to perform maintenance as well as to the left of the 250 round belt and soaking can for the booster on the end on the muzzle on the far right bottom. 

[Gildwiller1918]

I have been working on this project for some time now and am really close to finishing it up. This is the mg 08 & 08/15 Werkzeugkasten 11. The can itself is similar to the ones used to carry the dual 250 belted ammo, however these cans did not have the central divider and no holes were present indicating it was an ammo carrier version with the divider removed. The tool kit had a top layer and a bottom layer, in the top you had an oiler (this was pretty hard to find to match the exact size needed). Additionally, the top row had tools such as a screwdriver, file, cleaning brush, cleaning rope, spare fusee and springs, and a muzzle gland. The bottom had hammers, wrenches, oil/grease cans, as well as bore gauges, dummy ammo, and punches. I am missing a few no-go gauges, and I will be done with this project. The tools and accessories for this kit are extremely hard to find, and I have never seen a full kit for sale, sometimes the empty cans come up, but not often. 

[BramVdV1]

Hi everyone!

This is my first time posting here on the forum, so I'll introduce myself. I'm Bram, I'm 20 years old and I collect all kinds of ww1 militaria. I'll continue sharing bits and pieces from my collection, but I'll start with some Mg08 and Mg08/15 related stuff.

I have three standard wooden ammo boxes. Two of them still have a lot if original paint and are marked R. Görs & kallmann on the inside. They have some sort of metal shielding on the inside too. I got the third one for cheap, as it was repainted after ww1. I was able to remove all the postwar paint, but unfortunately there wasn't much original paint left. It still looks much better than it did before though.

I also have one metal double ammo box  also with a lot of original paint and a parking on the lid.

The larger box in the back is a transport case for two ammo drums for the Mg08/15. It has a lot of original paint and it even has the original protective pads on the inside of the lid.

The small box in the middle is for the hilfslafette. The inside of the lid still has the schematics for the parts that should be in there. The leather strap is marked 1917.

The large flat box in the back that says 'Reinigungsmaterial' used to contain all kinds of cleaning materials for the Mg. It has a papercloth handle on the side.

The ammo belt is also an original example. It isn't a full 250 round length anymore, but it's still a nice and rare piece. It's nicely marked and made in 1917. 

All the rounds in the picture are dated 1916 and 1917. They are all deactivated because I can't own live ammo where I live.

 

Hope you guys like it!

Greetings, Bram 

[Gildwiller1918]

Very impressive items, thank you for posting. Looking forward to seeing more of your items 

[72 usmc]

 Here are some reference links  over 13 pages of photos, to some interesting pictures on another forum (milsurps sticky) that members many may enjoy viewing. I wish mg1918 would join here. I also would love to see more of your specimens. Any post cards with Mg08s? Are those cartridges from WW I, please, how about a photo of the cartridges' headstamp .

 MG08    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=42631

MG08/15      https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=42632

 

 On this forum see this amazing post:  

 

 

[phantom]

Welcome to the forum Bram, very nice collection, USMC have you asked mg1918 to join? He would be very welcome 

[BramVdV1]

Thanks everyone!

And thank you for the reference links! I don't have any postcards with german machine guns, but I have quite a few postcards written by belgian frontline soldiers. There are definitely a few interesting ones among those.

I checked the headstamps of the cartridges again and they're all 1918 dated. I thought they were 1916 and 1917, but apparently I remembered that wrong.

[MG1918]

Some good pieces shown here already,  The title is huge although some accessories are common to both the 08 and 08/15.  As the trommel has been demonstrated already I would like to show one variation for the aircraft. Possibly zeppelin but designed for the use of gloves. Also some examples of the 100 rd belt.  

[MG1918]

[MG1918]

Sir some lovely items. I have started a thread on the actual MGs if of interest.  Mark

[MG1918]

Considering how useful wood would have been to all sides in the trenches, particularly for fires where possible, large crates and boxes must have been the first things to go!  Here is an example of the wooden 250 rd ammo box transit case holding 2000 rds. I have 3 of these large crates but all slightly different in construction, picked up from a Belgian Farm sometime ago. Condition fortunately quite reasonable but as with everything the wood had to be treated.

[MG1918]

[Gildwiller1918]

Awesome find! I have not seen one of those before. Thank you for posting 

[MG1918]

Here is another variation of the standard 250 rd ammo box.  Construction is identical but can only hold 100 rds. I am told by a French expert that this was for the MG08 used on the mountain tripod during WWI.

 

[MG1918]

It is not clear though if the belts were cut down 250 rd belts or proper 100 rd belts with the eyelets.  The traditional 100 rd belt is wound around the trommel spindle so would not work.  However as of today no one has ever seen a proper 100 rd belt with either 3 or 5 spacings.

[MG1918]

Just some random ammo boxes but notng the beautifully made MG01 wooden ammo boxes with all brass fittings.

 

[MG1918]

The MG08/15 water hose connector cap is often missing from so many MGs.  Very easy to knock off with a relatively small chain to keep it with the gun.  Shown below three variants.  Study has found the brass one to be the first pattern, followed by the same style but in steel (top).  Both are slightly raised and obviously 'user feedback' was taken into consideration and the 'lowered' version (bottom) became the norm.  All in WWI service.

[MG1918]

For the Moderator - there are two threads that are almost identical...but initiated by 2 different members. May I ask please if they can be combined?  ie a title that says   MG08 and MG08/15 accessories? 

Or perhaps 2 stand-alone threads. Thereby each member still owns the thread.  One being MG08 Accessories and the other MG08/15 Accessories?  Just a thought but not the end of the world either way  :>)   Thanks for your consideration.  Mark 

[Kenny Andrew]

Hi Mark,

Consider it done. 

[MG1918]

Continuing on the MG supply of water, here are some examples of the cylinder. Quite heavy when full - so like any good soldier, the first opportunity to dispense with something heavy must be taken :>)     This explains why the 08 armour is hard to find.  2 patterns seen and as normal the first version all brass fittings then subsequently steel.