Ian_Kel Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 I'm not sure if anyone's often mentioned this(?) but British issue Waterloo medals were often struck several times by the die/press before the medal disc was deemed "okay". The planchet, the medal disc or die must have moved 'cos there's so many instances of original medals with ghost lettering on the obverse, double or treble strikes. It's something I've never really heard folk talking about (maybe I've missed it) but something you often see on original medals. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Kel Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 Another original medal for comparison to same regiment (92nd Highlanders), in similar condition but a cleaner striking re the lettering. As far as I'm aware the ghost lettering doesn't affect the value of the medal in any way (it's barely noticeable to the naked eye). It's seldom if ever mentioned in auction catalogue descriptions yet it's a fairly regular occurrence on original issued Waterloo medals, whatever the regiment or soldiers rank. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 No more details? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Kel Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 Only that I wish I still owned them I don't really have more detail on the striking process, just that it's recorded that the discs were struck multiple times until required definition was obtained. The "ghost/offset" lettering seems to rarely be mentioned by collectors, as far as I know. In the past I've had three Waterloo's to the 92nd, two showed the "ghost/offset" lettering , one didn't. It wasn't something which particularly bothered me as I've seen it time and again on other original medals. You really only see it on good condition medals, ones which weren't worn for years and years or over polished. The 92nd Gordon Highlanders, not too long after being issued with their medals, were posted to the West Indies (1819) where many of them died of disease. If you see a Waterloo medal to the 92nd and it's in very good condition it's sometimes because the guy died in Jamaica. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Kel Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 Sorry if this is a bit longwinded but another wee snippet of info for the 92nd Gordon Highlanders; Waterloo medals to guys confirmed as wounded in action at Waterloo generally command a higher price than medals to guys unscathed. Not sure how things are these days with service, discharge & pension papers being more readily available online(?) but in the past when a medal came up for sale, without available papers it was very difficult to judge if a Waterloo guy had been a casualty, there just wasn't readily available info on a regiment by regiment basis (not sure if that's still the case?). The 92nd Gordon Highlanders was different though, back in 1916 J.M. Bulloch went through the Waterloo period War Office records for the 92nd (info found specifically from pay records which indicated if wounded or not) and privately printed a short run (60 copies) of an 8 page document "Gordon Highlanders Wounded at Waterloo". It's a rare document but for a while it was a bit of a gold mine of info not readily available elsewhere, i.e, the last Waterloo medal I saw up for auction to the 92nd (last year) was to a guy who was on Bulloch's list as "taken POW, 17th June, released/rejoined", none of that info on the auction listing. Will post the 8 pages if anyone wants a copy of them (can't imagine copyright still applies). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Perhaps you could post further photos of the Waterloo medals you had. Other states issuing Waterloo medals were Braunschweig, Hannover, Preußen for "1815", Nassau, etc. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Kel Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 I kept some photo's Fritz but sold the medals on a while back. They're really nice medals to have, as far as I know they were the first British campaign medals to be issued universally to all ranks involved, all the same (before that British medals only awarded to senior officers, either that or privates got low value bronze medals, officers getting silver, high rankers getting gold medals etc?). The first one I had was named *CORP. WILLIAM BARNET, 1st Bat. 92nd HIGHLANERS.* From Fochabers. Enlisted 1802. Wounded at Waterloo, stayed on with the regiment after Waterloo attaining the rank of Colour Sergeant. Died in Jamaica 1821. Medal sent to next of kin (son I think). 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Kel Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 Another one, it was named to SERJ. ALEXANDER RAINNIE, 1st Bat. 92nd HIGHLANERS. Guy was from up Huntly direction. Usually there's space before and after the rim naming for gap-filling **'s but this guys name & battalion took up the whole rim. Waterloo medals to Sergeants in the 92nd can be quite interesting 'cos by later in the day (Waterloo, 18th June) pretty much all the officers of the regiment had either been killed or wounded, surviving Sergeants commanded the remnants of at least their own company, sometimes two companies. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Kel Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 Another one, this one was to a guy in the Royal Artillery Drivers, William Lindsay from Montrose. When I had it it came with its original post Waterloo parchment discharge certificate (quite rare) but last time I saw the medal up for sale they had been separated, the certificate lost or sold separately (a bit of a shame). You'll notice all the different replacement suspensions on all the medals. Original issued suspensions were a simple steel clip + a split ring ribbon suspension- often replaced at a silversmiths for something more dapper 'cos steel rusted and stained clothing. I'm not sure if the original suspension adds a premium? I think it used to but It's not something I've really thought much about (I quite like the locally made silver replacement suspensions). 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Kel Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 Some folk might pass on this one 'cos of its condition but at the time I really liked it. Polished to within an inch of its life. SERJ. WILLIAM CRAWFORD, 3rd BAT. 1st FOOT. or R. SCOTS. The guys service papers survived, can't remember the complete in's and out's but he served with the 3rd Batt, Royal Scots throughout the Peninsula & as a Sergeant at Waterloo where he was wounded in the face by a lance. Elected to transfer to the 1st Battalion in 1818 when 3rd Batt was disbanded and continued to serve for years and years in the West Indies. Medal not in great condition but honest wear and tear. Impressed naming still pretty much legible and authentic. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 What a pity you sold them. I would try to replace them, but they are expensive. Braunschweig, Waterloo medal with original iron suspension. Always with soldier's name and unit on the rim. Hannover, Waterloo medal, Heinrich Tobaben, Landwehr Bat. Bremervoerde Nassau, Waterloo medal Prussia, 1815, these were unnamed, but made of captured French cannon bronze 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Kel Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 These are really nice medals, Fritz, thanks for posting the photographs of them. I guess the named German ones, the Braunschweig and Hannover ones, a bit like the British issue ones, must have possibilities for researching the individual it was awarded to? British Waterloo ones can be a bit hit-or-miss with individual research. Sometimes service, discharge, pension papers survive, if not, battalion muster, pay & casualty rolls can piece together a guys service record over the years. There's no unique service number on these early British medals, just name (+rank if NCO or officer) & Battalion number + Regiment, so everyone's looking for unique names. Often there were two or three guys with exactly the same name serving in the ranks of a battalion at the same time so you'll never really know who's medal you own if you get one of them (that bothers some collectors). 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Names of the Hannoverian, Braunschweig and Nassau medals can possibly still be researched in the respective archives of those lands. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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