DangDingus27 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 Hey everyone- I’m relatively new to collecting, so bear with me. yesterday I bought this WW1 Brodie helmet because of a significantly better price than normal (Black Friday and all). In their description they mention that the helmet insignia is not known to them, but appears to be US. It is evidently a British manufactured helmet, which means that this is either an “added later” paint scheme or is one of the 400,000 given to the US on arrival. the insignia appears to be related to the 87th “golden acorn” division, by the extremely evident acorn in the middle, yet the black leaf and red circle elude me. Any ideas? ALSO, extreme newcomer question: do people make fake Brodie’s? I don’t mean the pain and insignia, I mean the helmet itself. Like are there people out there stamping helmets with manganese non magnetic steel, painting em, beating em up and selling them? Sorry for such a dumb question, I just am curious, seeing as German helmets are rife with ACTUAL fakes. thanks everyone for whatever help you can provide! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Welcome to the forum, Gildwiller may be able to help with insignia, this would have been painted on later after the war ended. are there any stamp marks visible to identify the maker? I've not heard of WW1 Brodies being faked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangDingus27 Posted November 29, 2021 Author Share Posted November 29, 2021 7 hours ago, leon21 said: Welcome to the forum, Gildwiller may be able to help with insignia, this would have been painted on later after the war ended. are there any stamp marks visible to identify the maker? I've not heard of WW1 Brodies being faked. Yes there is- it’s H V/504 stamped- clearly British manufacture. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Andrew Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Welcome to the forum DangDingus, but please read the forum rules about linking to commercial websites. You are welcome to post the pictures if there are no water marks on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangDingus27 Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Kenny Andrew said: Welcome to the forum DangDingus, but please read the forum rules about linking to commercial websites. You are welcome to post the pictures if there are no water marks on them. Oops sorry! Yeah I’ll just post pics, my mistake 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangDingus27 Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Andrew Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Thanks Dangdingus, we need to do that in case there is a problem with the item and the seller is not here to defend it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangDingus27 Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Kenny Andrew said: Thanks Dangdingus, we need to do that in case there is a problem with the item and the seller is not here to defend it. Absolutely makes sense- I’m real sorry for not seeing that rule, my mistake. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Yes Manufacturer is W. Hutton & Sons, Steel Supplier is Vickers Ltd both of Sheffield, with Batch No 504 of steel used. Could you post a photo of the liner for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangDingus27 Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 hour ago, leon21 said: Yes Manufacturer is W. Hutton & Sons, Steel Supplier is Vickers Ltd both of Sheffield, with Batch No 504 of steel used. Could you post a photo of the liner for me. Yep here you are! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 After a little research the 87th Division consisted of the follow troops drawn from ( Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana National Guard. Trained at Camp Pike in Little Rock Ark. Nicknamed the Golden Acorn Division which consisted of the following. 345th, 346th, 347th Infantry. 334th, 335th, 336th Artillery. 334th 335th, 336th Machine Gun. 312th Engineers. Commanding Major General S.D. Sturgis. Supply Service at Pons. The Division didn't make it overseas until near the end of the war, it never fought as a division which makes me think that the insignia on your helmet could be one of the Regiments with in the Division that fought during the war. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Here is a helmet I found with the 87th Insignia on it, the Insignia was applied by scraping the pebble finish away in a circle leaving the inner pebble in the shape of a acorn, then painting the scraped area blackish green to highlite the acorn. photo's and info from other sources. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangDingus27 Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 19 minutes ago, leon21 said: After a little research the 87th Division consisted of the follow troops drawn from ( Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana National Guard. Trained at Camp Pike in Little Rock Ark. Nicknamed the Golden Acorn Division which consisted of the following. 345th, 346th, 347th Infantry. 334th, 335th, 336th Artillery. 334th 335th, 336th Machine Gun. 312th Engineers. Commanding Major General S.D. Sturgis. Supply Service at Pons. The Division didn't make it overseas until near the end of the war, it never fought as a division which makes me think that the insignia on your helmet could be one of the Regiments with in the Division that fought during the war. That is very possible! Cause if that isn’t the case, who really knows hahah. Thanks Leon! Other than the insignia, how does the rest of the helmet look to you? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangDingus27 Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 hour ago, leon21 said: Here is a helmet I found with the 87th Insignia on it, the Insignia was applied by scraping the pebble finish away in a circle leaving the inner pebble in the shape of a acorn, then painting the scraped area blackish green to highlite the acorn. photo's and info from other sources. I did some research too last night, and apparently the insignia may be related to the 87th artillery division: as you can see: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 The helmet looks a nice one, yes it could well be a Artillery Insignia. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gildwiller1918 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 Sorry, got to this thread late, good work Leon! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangDingus27 Posted December 1, 2021 Author Share Posted December 1, 2021 31 minutes ago, Gildwiller1918 said: Sorry, got to this thread late, good work Leon! Regardless, thanks for popping in! And while it seems we may have solved it, I’ll ask for another opinion! Your thought on this Gildwiller? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gildwiller1918 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 Yes your helmet is original and British made, which was quite common for US troops to have. The painted insignia looks good as well. These were typically done after the war. For parades, homecoming, etc. Yes there are also newly made Brodies on the market, various vendors sell these for reenactors and as historic reproductions as well as offering spare parts for repairs. As far as the insignia goes, the 87th division made it to France and underwent training, however did not see combat before the war ended. The red background typically meant it was from one of the Division's artillery regiments. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangDingus27 Posted December 1, 2021 Author Share Posted December 1, 2021 33 minutes ago, Gildwiller1918 said: Yes your helmet is original and British made, which was quite common for US troops to have. The painted insignia looks good as well. These were typically done after the war. For parades, homecoming, etc. Yes there are also newly made Brodies on the market, various vendors sell these for reenactors and as historic reproductions as well as offering spare parts for repairs. As far as the insignia goes, the 87th division made it to France and underwent training, however did not see combat before the war ended. The red background typically meant it was from one of the Division's artillery regiments. Sounds good- thanks again man. And yes, I know there are newly made Brodie’s (I personally own 2 PFLCO helmets)- but I was mostly wondering if there were repros and or fakes on the market that used the non magnetic Hadfield steel of the original- I doubt it cause it isn’t cheap but I’m still new to helmets, so I wouldn’t know. thanks! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gildwiller1918 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 I am not aware of anyone using the non magnetic steel, but anything is possible today. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangDingus27 Posted December 1, 2021 Author Share Posted December 1, 2021 31 minutes ago, Gildwiller1918 said: I am not aware of anyone using the non magnetic steel, but anything is possible today. Very true… regardless, after this I’m feeling way more confident about the helmet and markings. Thanks guys! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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