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Brodie Helmet and insignia verification needed!


DangDingus27

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Hey everyone- I’m relatively new to collecting, so bear with me.

 

yesterday I bought this WW1 Brodie helmet because of a significantly better price than normal (Black Friday and all). In their description they mention that the helmet insignia is not known to them, but appears to be US. It is evidently a British manufactured helmet, which means that this is either an “added later” paint scheme or is one of the 400,000 given to the US on arrival.

the insignia appears to be related to the 87th “golden acorn” division, by the extremely evident acorn in the middle, yet the black leaf and red circle elude me. Any ideas?

 

ALSO, extreme newcomer question: do people make fake Brodie’s? I don’t mean the pain and insignia, I mean the helmet itself. Like are there people out there stamping helmets with manganese non magnetic steel, painting em, beating em up and selling them? Sorry for such a dumb question, I just am curious, seeing as German helmets are rife with ACTUAL fakes.

 

thanks everyone for whatever help you can provide!

 

 

 

helmet.jpeg

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Welcome to the forum, Gildwiller may be able to help with insignia, this would have been painted on later after the war ended.

are there any stamp marks visible  to identify the maker? I've not heard of WW1  Brodies being faked.

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7 hours ago, leon21 said:

Welcome to the forum, Gildwiller may be able to help with insignia, this would have been painted on later after the war ended.

are there any stamp marks visible  to identify the maker? I've not heard of WW1  Brodies being faked.

Yes there is- it’s H V/504 stamped- clearly British manufacture. 

 

 

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Welcome to the forum DangDingus, but please read the forum rules about linking to commercial websites. You are welcome to post the pictures if there are no water marks on them.   

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1 minute ago, Kenny Andrew said:

Welcome to the forum DangDingus, but please read the forum rules about linking to commercial websites. You are welcome to post the pictures if there are no water marks on them.   

Oops sorry! Yeah I’ll just post pics, my mistake

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Thanks Dangdingus, we need to do that in case there is a problem with the item and the seller is not here to defend it.   

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1 hour ago, Kenny Andrew said:

Thanks Dangdingus, we need to do that in case there is a problem with the item and the seller is not here to defend it.   

Absolutely makes sense- I’m real sorry for not seeing that rule, my mistake.

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Yes Manufacturer is W. Hutton & Sons, Steel Supplier is Vickers Ltd both of Sheffield, with Batch No 504 of steel used.

Could you post a photo of the liner for me.

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1 hour ago, leon21 said:

Yes Manufacturer is W. Hutton & Sons, Steel Supplier is Vickers Ltd both of Sheffield, with Batch No 504 of steel used.

Could you post a photo of the liner for me.

Yep here you are!

C5FBEBC4-EC11-4F11-B84A-E9CCFACB4D04.jpeg

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After a little research the 87th Division consisted of the follow troops drawn from ( Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana National Guard.

Trained at Camp Pike in Little Rock  Ark. Nicknamed the Golden Acorn Division which consisted of the following.

345th, 346th, 347th Infantry.

334th, 335th, 336th Artillery.

334th 335th, 336th Machine Gun.

312th Engineers.

Commanding Major General  S.D. Sturgis.

Supply Service at Pons.

The Division didn't make it overseas until near the end of the war, it never fought as a division which makes me think that the insignia

on your helmet could be one of the Regiments with in the Division that fought during the war.

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Here is a helmet I found with the 87th Insignia on it, the Insignia was applied by scraping the pebble finish  away in a circle leaving the inner

pebble in the shape of a acorn, then painting the scraped area blackish green to highlite the acorn.

photo's and info from other sources.

87th Div Helmet (1).jpg

87th Div Helmet (2).jpg

87th Div Helmet (3).jpg

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19 minutes ago, leon21 said:

After a little research the 87th Division consisted of the follow troops drawn from ( Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana National Guard.

Trained at Camp Pike in Little Rock  Ark. Nicknamed the Golden Acorn Division which consisted of the following.

345th, 346th, 347th Infantry.

334th, 335th, 336th Artillery.

334th 335th, 336th Machine Gun.

312th Engineers.

Commanding Major General  S.D. Sturgis.

Supply Service at Pons.

The Division didn't make it overseas until near the end of the war, it never fought as a division which makes me think that the insignia

on your helmet could be one of the Regiments with in the Division that fought during the war.

That is very possible! Cause if that isn’t the case, who really knows hahah. Thanks Leon!

 

Other than the insignia, how does the rest of the helmet look to you?

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1 hour ago, leon21 said:

Here is a helmet I found with the 87th Insignia on it, the Insignia was applied by scraping the pebble finish  away in a circle leaving the inner

pebble in the shape of a acorn, then painting the scraped area blackish green to highlite the acorn.

photo's and info from other sources.

87th Div Helmet (1).jpg

87th Div Helmet (2).jpg

87th Div Helmet (3).jpg

I did some research too last night, and apparently the insignia may be related to the 87th artillery division: as you can see:

7F1CEF9D-A0DA-4C9E-B460-4671D8AC1A9C.jpeg

 

4EE98C74-38CB-4FC1-85E6-5ED651EE5157.png

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Sorry, got to this thread late, good work Leon!

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31 minutes ago, Gildwiller1918 said:

Sorry, got to this thread late, good work Leon!

Regardless, thanks for popping in! And while it seems we may have solved it, I’ll ask for another opinion! Your thought on this Gildwiller?

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Yes your helmet is original and British made, which was quite common for US troops to have. The painted insignia looks good as well. These were typically done after the war. For parades, homecoming, etc. Yes there are also newly made Brodies on the market, various vendors sell these for reenactors and as historic reproductions as well as offering spare parts for repairs. As far as the insignia goes, the 87th division made it to France and underwent training, however did not see combat before the war ended. The red background typically meant it was from one of the Division's artillery regiments.

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33 minutes ago, Gildwiller1918 said:

Yes your helmet is original and British made, which was quite common for US troops to have. The painted insignia looks good as well. These were typically done after the war. For parades, homecoming, etc. Yes there are also newly made Brodies on the market, various vendors sell these for reenactors and as historic reproductions as well as offering spare parts for repairs. As far as the insignia goes, the 87th division made it to France and underwent training, however did not see combat before the war ended. The red background typically meant it was from one of the Division's artillery regiments.

Sounds good- thanks again man. And yes, I know there are newly made Brodie’s (I personally own 2 PFLCO helmets)- but I was mostly wondering if there were repros and or fakes on the market that used the non magnetic Hadfield steel of the original- I doubt it cause it isn’t cheap but I’m still new to helmets, so I wouldn’t know.

 

thanks!

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I am not aware of anyone using the non magnetic steel, but anything is possible today.

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31 minutes ago, Gildwiller1918 said:

I am not aware of anyone using the non magnetic steel, but anything is possible today.

Very true… regardless, after this I’m feeling way more confident about the helmet and markings. Thanks guys!

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