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Collar+Shoulder+ Cuff+ Buttons


Skylinechili

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Found a box in storage full of uniform decoration, buttons, shoulder boards ect. Not sure if I'm posting this under the correct category, so I apologize if it should be elsewhere. I'll post pictures and add more as I progress through it. 

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All correct under uniforms. Here is a mixture of older pieces from pre 1919 and from Third Reich period, as can be seen.

The last photo with collar patches is for a Standartenführer of the Waffen-SS. Originals are incredibly rare and very pricy indeed.

Next picture back is a summer breast eagle for the white or khaki tunic, if gold, could be either Kriegsmarine or a general of the army, if silver then an army officer. A single crossed batton for a shoulder piece for a Bavarian field marshall! A futher pair of crossed battons for either an army field marshall or Großadmiral Kriegsmarine.

Next picture back, a detached from the uniform collar for an officer of one of the Garde-Grenadier-Regiments pre-1914, rare!

Next picture back, a detached collar and one cuff from a 1900 pattern tunic for Prussian Generals, various generals' collar patches.

Shoulder pieces:
Top row, left to right:
Prussia, General
Prussia, General, larger, older type, slightly missmatched? Whereas one piece has the black interwoven, the other has none, or a paler, faded colour???
Prussia, Leutnant, Garde-Pionier-Bataillon
2nd row, left to right:
Sachsen, Unterarzt auf Kriegsdauer,
wartime grey, ditto Prussia, Prussia,
Leutnant with black backing, various possibilities
3rd row, left to right:
Württemberg, Oberstabsarzt (Dr. with rank of Major) gilt symbols missing/removed,
Prussia, single epaulette red/gold, various possiblities, the stars have been wrongly added, damage from previous removed cypher.

Waffenrock für einen preußischen General, um 1900Feines dunkelblaues  Wolltuch, auf dem ponceaurot

Waffenrock / tunic for a Prussian General, ca. 1900, with collar and cuff detail. Note lower four buttons always worn unbuttoned, shoulder pieces are missing.

 

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Nice items, looking forward to seeing what else you have.

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Perhaps the collar beings to photo #1 ,2? I noticed the Collar and boards were removed. Snapped photos of a few other items as well. The trenchcoat-photo# 5, must weigh 15lbs. And of course representing US, West point!

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Photo 1 and 2:
Überrock, interim dress, an older example dating from possibly 1860-1880, this style worn till 1890 - never any insignia, apart from shoulder pieces were ever worn with such a uniform coat. The coat was worn instead of the uniform and was an informal dress, worn only by officers! The Überrock had a long tradition in the Prussian Army.
2 buttons missing from tail decoration at reverse (compare next uniform photo)
Medals and Decorations were never to be worn with this dress, apart from Iron Cross 1.class, a buttonhole ribbon or a neck decoration, see photo example.
Always dark blue,this example has a black (velvet) collar with red piping. The buttons are either silver or gold ???  (copper gold) coloured, if gold coloured, then Artillery, if silver coloured then Pionier. Here,  typical examples:

ORIGINALER ÜBERROCK ARTILLERIEOFFIZIER(PREUSSEN/HESSEN/WÜRTTEMBERG),  Uniform - EUR 314,00 | PicClick DE

Prussia: Überrock for Artillery officer, shoulder pieces have been removed!


Portrait_Bismarck_1894.jpg

Bismarck wearing an Überrock in the colours of Magdeburgisches Kürassier-Regiment No.7

Kürassier-Regimenter - Posts | Facebook

An example of the different forms of dress worn by an officer of a Kürassier-Regiment, ca. 1880-90

Der preußische Überrock 1808-1815

Early 19. Century, after the Napoleonic wars.

Photo 3 & 4:
Überrock after 1890 for a Generalleutnant of one of the German states, you would need a close-up of the shoulder pieces to determine which state this is. Ribbons in 2nd buttonhole for Iron Cross 2nd class and an Austrian decoration.

Photo 5:
An elegant officer Paletot / Mantel or greatcoat, late Weimar period or early Third Reich, ca. 1930-35. Shoulder pieces are missing, or never had any? Look for signs of removal, open shoulder seams, loops, etc.
There were no trenchcoats in Prussia!

Photo 6 & 7:
A fieldgrey 1907 pattern Waffenrock / officer tunic for a Württemberg Oberstabsarzt (Doctor rank of Major). The left cuff has lost one button! Try to find a button of this pattern, toned dull silver. Note, the buttons were never sewn onto the cuffs, they were inserted through a small slit, here visible in picture, retained by a strip of cloth at the rear through the button loop. Here the shoulder pieces have become detached and only hanging by the buttons. Are there shoulder loops near the seams?
Collar and cuffs piped in blue, as per regulation for Doctors/medical

* Prussian officers were permitted to wear in lieu of the uniform:
Überrock
Litewka
Paletot
Mantel/Greatcoat - there were also variations, which were permitted or "tolerated"
Cape

Los 5231 | Die Sammlung Lacey | Online-Katalog | A80cl | Vergangene  Auktionen | Kaufen | Hermann HistoricaPREUSSEN FELDGRAUE LITEWKA für einen Leutnant im Thüringischen  Infanterie-Regimen - EUR 1.320,00 | PicClick DE

Litewka für einen Leutnant, um 1900Feines graues Tuch (leicht fleckig),  rote Vorstöße, zwei Reihe

Litweka for officers, various examples, light grey was pre-war. During the war there were identical fieldgrey versions, largely unchanged

Verlobung 1913 in Karlsruhe | Flickr

Herzog Ernst August wearing the Paletot  (1913)
 

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Closer photo of the Überrock shoulder pieces. Looking through a few books to me it appears to be Mecklenburg-Schwerin? Gold and Silver braid / red, blue, yellow threading. Could be wrong. Fritz will educate me if I am! 

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Yes indeed, that is Mecklenburg-Schwerin or Mecklenburg-Strelitz, extremely rare, not quite matching the Prussian one on the other side. Do you have the other one to match somewhere?

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I believe they match, however.one of the buttons is slightly flatter. Perhaps it was replaced at one point.

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Überrock or frock coat for an Artillery officer, ca. 1890-1914, shoulder pieces have been removed.

Cape for a Prussian officer, infantry and some other possibilities. The red lining to the collar has become unstitched, would need some attention. Nice quality.

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Would these trousers be worn with the Überrock? Three pairs found near by. Also starting to get in to some British items.

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Those trousers look British to me, are there no maker marks on the buttons or labels? I'm pretty sure they are Guards trousers and would go with the Bearskin helmet you have.   

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I nearly missed this last post, overlooked, just found.
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This pair of trousers looks British, I may be mistaken - look for any labels or stamps inside, take a look at each button, maybe they are marked.
Otherwise it could be from one of the British cavalry regiments, presumably for an officer. Maybe even Guards, but the guards wore or wear mostly a narrower red piping.

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These could be worn with the Prussian General's Überrock or with the General's tunic.
A similar version was also worn as a breeches pattern (shorter, tapered below knees) with long boots.
These Stripes are known as Doppel Lampassen, in the middle is also a thin red piping, as always.

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Französischer General Reille mit Parlamentär überreicht König Wilhelm I von  Preußen begleitet u a von Kronprinz Friedric - Detailseite - LEO-BW

Wilhelm I., König von Preußen und Kaiser von Deutschl... (#141646)

The Überrock was also popularly worn by senior officers on the battlefield. Here, Wilhelm I. accepting the capitulation of Kaiser Napoleon III. at Sedan on 2. September 1870, 2 different impressions.

- Second trousers are for a Prussian General, either Prussian or one of the German states with a similar uniform, they would date from about 1900 to 1916.

- The two red plumes are British - the first shorter one of red hair - a "hackle", could be worn on the side of the Guards' bearskin cap, or even perhaps on a Hussar busby or Royal Horse Artillery. Age hard to determine, as similar patterns worn today.

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The bearskin cap is of one of the five British foot guards regiments, which still exist today, the headdress could be modern, it could also be over 100 years old, check for signs of age, or stamps and dates inside. The red hackle would be worn by the Coldstream Guards, a white one by the Grenadier Guards, green for the Irish Guards, Scotts and Welsh Guards would have their colours.
Looking at the interior, I would tend to think that the leather liner is relatively new, or has been renewed in it's service life, then these caps were costly to procure, so they would last and be used for several generations, repairs would be made or parts renewed.

OF Charlotte debuts for the Coldstream Guards Band | Posts Page

A Coldstream Guardswoman, band, uniform basicly unchanged for a century.

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This is the Mess dress for officers, looks like Coldstream Guards with the roses, jacket, waistcoat and trousers to match, a semi formal evening wear for the officers, may be older, basicly unchanged today. A closer examination of style, material, age or perhaps a maker's or name label may reveal more information, I would tend to think it has some vintage, possibly between the wars period?

Mess Dress & Accoutrements

The modern day version, Coldstream Guards - slightly different to the version in your pictures, therefore your example may not be Coldstream, possibly York and Lancaster Regiment?

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I'll check the pants. There were 2 pair stored with the Überrocks, 2 stripe like in the second photo. The one stripe with the red British coat.

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More details and illustrations re. Überrock and trousers added.

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The label is as found on other ranks' uniforms, as stated, Guards and HAC - Honourable Artillery Company
The jacket with the label "Murr", would be Coldstream Guards as per the buttons, which look like the "staybright" variety of the 1960s onwards, not brass, but anodised aluminium, also the handwritten name looks very modern. The label is detailed but nobody seems to date anything nowadays.

The leather greatcoat is definitely military, it also has the correct buttons, the officer's shoulder pieces have been removed, they were usually buttoned on, attached by loops, and not stitched-in.
If the colour is fieldgrey/greygreen, then it is Wehrmacht, if bluegrey, then Luftwaffe, exact colour is not quite clear in the photo.

The double breased fieldgrey denim overjacket was worn by the Gebirgsjäger - mountain troops, now quite rare.

The General's trousers are correct with the General's Überrock, as I stated before. In the second buttonhole is a double ribbon for the Iron Cross and an Austrian decoration.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Certainly an older piece, I would say from the 1930s just pre-war, possibly worn in early war period for home service with a khaki top cover.
Coldstream Guards Regiment

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Nice officers badge, have you checked it for hallmarks? If it is hallmarked that would also date it for you. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Some add ons. Need some help identifying these 2 items. The fur items are cuffs? Very soft fur, maybe rabbit. 

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