Roter Adlerorden

[Skylinechili]

Nice group photo! I'll likely need to get estimate appraisal for Insurance. Any thoughts on estimate value or advice for Professional appraisal in the US? I have the auction recipes from 1970's on a few but I'm guessing these have appreciated well. 

[Fritz]

First of all, on the sash / Schärpe is the Grand Cross of the Red Eagle Order, we are talking of one of the highest of the Prussian decorations.
das Großkreuz des Rothen Adler Ordens. I don't have the prices in my head at the moment. The best is to search around in the internet, some auction results  from the leading German auction houses will give an estimate of the present value.

The other decorations are the 2. Class of the Red Eagle Order, with swords and oakleaves, and with oakleaves, these have their own particular values. Most of these decorations are gold and likely to have a maker's mark. The Grand Cross is likely to be gilded silver, a higher class did not necessarily mean a more expensive metal. The case to the 2. Class is marked "Wagner", so the decoration is most likely gold. Wagner was one of the leading makers of this decoration, not to be compared with 3rd Reich quality.

Do not think about 1970s prices, they are nothing. A source in internet quotes a price for the Grand Cross Red Eagle Order as around 9.300 Euros, however, their price estimates are well out of date, and are at least as 15-20 years ago.
Chinese and Russian millionaires are now on the look out for European collectables, but I would not sell anything to these.

A guide to orders and decorations of the German states can be found here, as mentioned, the prices quoted are out of date:

https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/deutsche-staaten/roter-adler-orden-groskreuz.html

 

[Skylinechili]

Fritz,

Same would apply for Black Eagle Orders as well? Is one a higher decoration? I have many books on these orders, some very old. However they are all in German. You seem to have a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate your input! 

[Fritz]

The Schwarzer Adler Orden is the highest of all decorations! The cross was worn at the bottom of an orange sash suspended from the left shoulder to the right hip, and not always worn. The breast star was mostly worn, only with certain uniforms not worn. It could be also worn on the Collane, if awarded.
Are there any maker marks on the decorations?
Photos: Internet examples

Prices twenty years ago
16.000 – 17.000 € in Gold
11.000 – 13.000 € in Silber vergoldet

Breast Star:
6000 – 7000 €

 

Prinz Heinrich von Preußen, 1726 - 1802

All princes of the house of Prussia wore the Black Eagle Order

[Skylinechili]

Yes, the Breast Star is marked "W" and the opposite end could be another marking II?  The Black Eagle is also marked "W". It appears to have another mark at the very top but can't make it out. I'll need magnifying to read if it is truly another mark. See photos. 

[Fritz]

These are both by Wagner, Berlin. The further marks may be proof marks.

[Skylinechili]

Fritz, thank you. When I have more time I'll try to make out the proof marks. Definitely gold, not silver. Am I able to send you a private message on here? I have a couple other items that I'd rather not share public. Let me know if that's possible. 

Thanks

[Skylinechili]

Believe I found the Schwartzer Adler sash?

[Fritz]

That is for the Schwarzer-Adler-Orden, correct! Important to get these pieces properly sorted. Do you have any of the original documents?  These make the set so much more valuable! Even a document on it's own can be worth a fortune. The cases are also very much in demand and even a case for the RAO 3.class or 4. Class or Kronen-Orden, can make a good 500 Euros, the higher grades even more.
Do you also have the chain to the Schwarzer Adler-Orden?

If you have any documents, do post these and we can try to attribute and describe them.

Urkunde, Rother Adler Orden 2.Klasse /Eichenlaub, original Unterschrift, Wilhelm II.). The Kaiser signed all RAO documents personally from the 3. Class upwards! Not the 4. Class however.

Schwarzer Adler Orden to Großadmiral von Tirpitz

[Skylinechili]

I still have plenty of work to do but perhaps one of these documents coordinate? When I get home I'll remove from the protective sleeves and take better photos. Thanks

[Fritz]

 

first document:

WIR, WILHELM, von Gottes Gnaden, König von Preußen & C...
haben soeben dem Generalleutnant und Feldzeugmeister Robert Koehne unser Hochzeitserinnerungszeichen verliehen..." Berlin, den 27. Januar 1906 (original signature) Kaiser Wilhelm II.
(N.B.: Robert Koehne, Generalleutnant der Artillerie, Chef der Feldzugmeisterei vom 15. September 1904 bis 4. April 1910)

Hochzeitserinnerungszeichen (1906)  As a rule, this decoration was worn on the ribbon of the last decoration awarded to the recipient

The second document, Übersendungsschreiben - a letter from the General-Ordenskommission, informs the recipient, that His Majesty the Kaiser has condescended to award to him our Hochzeitserinnerungszeichen... Recipient not named,
Berlin, den 27. Januar 1906, signed Prinz zu Salm Horstmar
(for the General-Ordenskommission) (This date was the Kaiser's official birthday and a date for awards to be made...)

Third document: Award to General-Lieutenant zur Disposition Georg von Wedell of the Rother Adler Orden, Zweiter Klasse mit Eichenlaub...
Berlin, den 2. Januar 1875 - (original signature) Kaiser Wilhelm I.

[Skylinechili]

Fritz, 

A few additional pages found in the same binder. The first photo document opens-second picture is the interior. 3rd and 4th photos together with envelope with wax seal. 

[Gildwiller1918]

Impressive items! If you want to contact Fritz for a personal message, go to the staff tab and select his icon, and send a private message that way.

[Fritz]

Last documents posted, first 2 pages:

Offiziers-Patent / Officer's Patent for Seconde-Lieutenant Mautz of (Kur-) Hessisches Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 11 to Premier-Lieutenant,
Springe, den 21. September 1889
N.B.: These documents were always double-folio

The last two documents are handwritten cabinet orders from Kaiser Wilhelm I. concerning the immediate promotion of
Oberst von Wedell, Kommandeur of 38.Infanterie-Brigade, 26. Juli 1870
personal signature of Kaiser Wilhelm I.
"Ich habe Sie bei meinen heutigen Beförderungen in der Kammer (?), zum General-Major befördert, und....etc."

N.B:
Schwarzer Adler-Orden:
Die Statuten des Ordens datierten vom 18. Januar 1701. Der Schwarze Adlerorden war kein Verdienstorden wie der Orden Pour le Mérite, sondern zunächst ein Hausorden mit begrenzter Mitgliederzahl. Das Motto des Ordens lautete „Suum cuique“. Ursprünglich sollte die Zahl der preußischen Ordensträger, die königlichen Prinzen nicht mitgerechnet, nur 30 betragen.^[1] Bis 1848 mussten Personen von nicht reichsfürstlicher Geburt, die die Auszeichnung bekommen sollten, ihre Abstammung von acht adligen Ahnen nachweisen und das 30. Lebensjahr erreicht haben.^[1] Mit der Neuveröffentlichung der Statuten durch Friedrich Wilhelm IV. am 20. Februar 1848 erhielten nichtadelige Ordensritter mit dem Erhalt der Insignien einen Wappenbrief, der sie in den erblichen Adelsstand erhob.^[2] Die preußischen Prinzen erhielten den Orden zwar mit ihrer Geburt, legten die Insignien aber erst nach ihrer Konfirmation und nach der Neuveröffentlichung durch Friedrich Wilhelm IV. zusammen mit ihrer ersten Offiziersuniform zum vollendeten zehnten Lebensjahr an. Auch Frauen konnten den Orden erhalten, so z. B. die Königin von Preußen und Deutsche Kaiserin Victoria.

English version, not identical:  From its founding in 1701 to 1918, the Order of the Black Eagle was awarded 407 times, with 57 of these installations occurring during the reign of Friedrich I (1701–1713).^[1][4] In 1918, the knights of the order totalled 118 — 14 were members of the Prussian royal house, one was a member of the Princely House of Hohenzollern, 49 (of whom nine were from states then at war with Germany) were members of other reigning houses, and 54 (including 17 who had not yet been fully installed) were nonroyal Germans.^[5] Subjects of the Prussian King receiving the order which was only given in one class were promoted to the peerage and received hereditary title.

From the Prussian State Handbooks, it is clear that the Order of the Black Eagle (as well as, by statute, the other Prussian orders, as mentioned above) was conferred upon all male members of the royal family on their 10th birthdays; these men received the collar of the Order on their 18th birthdays. The Order was also conferred upon Prussian queens (and, later, German empresses), though other female members of the royal family usually received the Order of Louise instead