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Iron Cross Inscription


Skylinechili

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Greetings, new to the forum. Was hoping someone would help me understand the inscriptions on the rear of my Iron cross. Are these campaigns/ dates?Appreciations in advance

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This must be almost unique, there were very few pieces with such detailed histories recorded in engraving. If anyting, there is the place and date of the award, or maybe even the name or initials of the recipient. This must be worth thousands.
This is a personalised inscription, rare to find, and even rarer with so much detail. The recipient has had this engraved:
Hauptmann der Reserve Ernst Weichmann, Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 52,
Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 208 - M.G.-Offizier beim Regiments-Stab
1914
Belgien, Sempst(?), Mecheln, Antwerpen, Yser, Langemarck

1915
Russland
Bulgarien
Jaroslav
Rawa Rusla
Pinsk

1917
Chémin des Dames
5.V.1917 - März 1920

1915 - 1920
Frankreich

Verdun, Noyon-Roye
Somme
Orléans, Montoire, Cholet, Chateauroux
in Französ. Gefangenschaft

So, as can be seen, he was finally a  prisoner of war (in France), he served as a Hauptmann of the Reserve with the staff of the Machine Gun Company of Reserve-Infantry Regiment 52 and Reserve-Infantry-Regiment 208 on several fronts.  He was a prisoner of war till  March 1920. This is a very rare find indeed. If there is no paperwork to go with this decoration, at least all the details are inscribed on the back of the cross, so you know who it belonged to and his history. Possible to research even more about this officer. Details would be at the Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt in Potsdam or the Deutsche Diensstelle in Berlin (formerly WA St, Wehrmachtsauskunftsstelle), now Bundesarchiv in Berlin, you can reach them online. Many records were destroyed in February 1945 when Potsdam was bombed for the first time and entirely destroyed, but some records may have survived. There are also regimental histories for most regiments, which were published after World War I, in the late 1920s or early 1930s. You may be lucky to find an original regimental history at a specialised book dealer.

The Iron Cross looks like a very good quality. There may be a maker's mark on either the pin or below the pin loop, check this out, and make an extra photo of this.

Value: Very hard to estimate, but very high, I would say a good thousand at least.

 

N.B.: Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 208 was raised on 1. September 1914 in the Braunschweig area, X. Armee-Korps.

There is a brief detailed history of Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 208 found here:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment_Nr._208

Literature:
Das Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 208. Fritz Haleck, Verlag Gerhard Stalling, Oldenburg i. O./Berlin 1922 - gibt hier abweichend den Aufstellungsbeginn mit 10. Sept. 1914 an.

Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 52 im Weltkriege: Erinnerungsblätter dt. Regimenter, Gerhard Stalling, 1925

 

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Fritz, thank you for the detailed reply! I've grown more intrigued and will use the resources to explore this piece further. Maker mark "KO", see photos I attached. Believe KO -Klein und Quenzer? Also the original outer box in photos. BTW, I like your name. My father called me "Fritz" when I young. 

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As I see, the mark is KO, which quite standard and these were made on order of the Königliche Ordenskanzlei Berlin, the institution responsable for the administration of all awards of orders and decorations in Prussia.  There was a vast range of marks on iron crosses, but many had no maker's mark. The iron cross was a Prussian decoration, and not "German".  I see you also have the original cardboard outer package, which is even more valuable - such sets now rarely turn up.
In the background you have a 1939 cross, over which is a 1914 ribbon, with a bar - this is worn with the 1914 cross, not 1939, and was awarded to those in 1914-18, who already had the 1870 iron cross, worn only with the 1870 iron cross, which is, as you can imagine, just a very few.

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Fritz,

Thank you again for your knowledge. The ribbon in the background wasn't placed over the 39' cross intentionally, I was sorting through many of my crosses. You say that ribbon + bar is worn with 1914 cross or 1870? I'm in the process of sorting through my father's collection which was passed down to me. I want to make sure all documents, cases, bars ect. Are kept with the corresponding awards. He was more the expert and was teaching me but sadly past before we completed. Here are a few 1870 crosses I have as well. I enjoy the subject and very much appreciate the time you're taking in your responses. 20210203_001520.thumb.jpg.14f4209ec1860cdcd37cec79eafca217.jpg

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The 1914 Bar is for the 1870 Iron Cross, the 1939 Bar is for the 1914 Iron Cross.
Note the difference between the 1914 and the 1939 ribbons, latter is red/white/black.
Sorry to hear about your father.

Bildergebnis für wiederholungsspange 1914 eisernes kreuz von 1870

1870 Iron Cross with Bar 1914 and Jubilee oakleaf

Bildergebnis für wiederholungsspange 1939 eisernes kreuz von 1914

1914 Iron Cross with Bar 1939

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1939 Bar as worn (example: internet photo)

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Iron Cross 1939 on correct ribbons

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2 examples of E.K.I 1914, first example has a maker's mark on the pin, S.W., Sy & Wagner, Silver
second piece, alloy with silver content, has no maker' mark and a rather unusual pin, the cross is convex in shape, which maybe makes it sit better on the uniform, a preference of the wearer. An extra piece, which the wearer has privately purchased, these decorations were readily available to those who were entitled to it.

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Very nice cross in the first post, and as Fritz said, extremely rare to find engraved with such detail. Thank you for sharing!

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Gildwiller, you're very welcome!

Not to stray off from my original inquiry but I did have a question on a few other items. I believe this is A knights cross. I found a separate ribbon with oak leaves and swords in the same box along with this small picture. My question is; does the separate ribbon/ oak leaves belong with the Cross or could it be for another cross I may have? Do you believe the picture is meant to be grouped with this cross? I know they are from different wars and could have just been stored together but seemed random. Thank you

 

 

 

 

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The oakleaf does belong to a knight's cross, whether it belonged to the wearer of the other example, cannot be ascertained, unless there is some documentation to go with it. As for the medallion and small locket, these are personal items, perhaps they had some connection with the wearer of the knight's cross. The locket contains a portrait of a soldier of  Infanterie-Regiment Prinz Carl (4. Großherzoglich  Hessisches) Nr.118, pre-1914 (yellow shoulder straps). If you know who the wearer of the knight's cross was, you could research further, perhaps he was enlisted in that regiment in 1914.

1939 decorations belong under the section 3rd Reich decorations

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The oakleaf and swords were two very high additions to the Knight's Cross, and each had to be really earned. The number of these awarded was not high.
Perhaps you have some literature on the subject. There are also official lists of all recipients of the Knight's cross, also the oakleaves and also the swords.
These can be easily found in internet, there is also literature published with all named recipients. Adolf Galland was the first to receive the "swords".

Here you can find a list of the oakleaves (without swords):

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Träger_des_Eichenlaubs_zum_Ritterkreuz_des_Eisernen_Kreuzes

Oakleaves with Swords:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Träger_des_Eichenlaubs_mit_Schwertern_zum_Ritterkreuz_des_Eisernen_Kreuzes

N.B.:  The original records were compiled by Fellgiebel, Heerespersonalamt, and were published by same. Reprints can be found.

 

 

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Very nice items Skylinechili!

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  • 1 year later...

I have expanded my comments on the first EK here with much engraving. This must be an extremely
valuable piece.

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  • 7 months later...

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