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US WW1 and WW2 Brodie Helmets and Maker Stamps


leon21

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This one is a 36th Division, with YJ 55.

Interestingly, the IV symbol under the liner pad has been found on one other YJ series helmet. No idea what it means.

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This one is interesting. It's pretty beat up and has what I think is supposed to be a 33rd ID insignia on the front, but it's missing its black circle (can't really tell from the picture). What's even more interesting is that the stamp is XHM. Pretty cool, I don't think I've seen this one, but hopefully there is another one out there somewhere. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, I am new to this forum and seen there was a lot of knowledge about these old helmets and enjoyed seeing all of them and was hoping someone could help me help identify mine. I was told it was a  WW2 Army helmet. From my research it is looking like to me that it may be from WW1. If I am reading it correctly the stamp number is ZG37 or ZG57.  It also has what I believe is his initials F.G.P. and F.P. in numerous places on the helmet and on the lining. There is a little star emblem on the inside center rivet. On the leather chin piece next to the center star there is a size of 6-7/8 and some writing. On the outside of the leather head piece that is some I believe are initials and some more writhing I can't quite make out.  Any information of this helmet would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

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Hello Annette, welcome to the forum, what you have is a US made, 1917 pattern helmet. These were used in WW1 and some were reused to make the M1917A1 helmets just before WW2.  This was patterned from the British Brodie helmet. ZG37 stood for the maker and lot number, unfortunately the lists for those have not been recovered yet. The 6 7/8 marking denoted the liner size, however the liner could be adjusted slightly to meet the wearers size. Sometimes the liner itself is stamped with a makers mark, this is located on the underside of the black portion of the liner. It may be possible to fold it over and look, however if the liner is brittle and stiff I would not recommend this as it may tear. The helmet has its original paint, as it should look for WW1 use. The initials could have belonged to the wearer, however with out more information, it would be difficult to say. Only issue I see is that the chinstrap appears to be broken or missing, however I can't see that from the images. Overall a very nice helmet. 

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Welcome Annette, nice looking helmet I agree with Gildwiller your helmet still has part of the label

which would read ( Tighten Cord and ajust netting to fit head).

I've never seen a helmet that has the solders initials on the outside of the helmet before, you normally

find them on the in side of the shell or on the liner. I'm thinking it could have used post WW1 by someone

in a volunteer role as a Fire Party member this is only a guess though.

 

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Thank you both very much for this great information. It is just amazing the knowledge you all have on these helmets. I did a lot of searching and there is so many different stamp markings on these helmets it is a little confusing when you don't know much about them.

I appreciate your quick responses. Thanks again, Annette

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  • 2 months later...

 I found this clip on US Helmet production from another forum site, interesting process showing the process of painting and finishing the M1917 helmet.

 

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675048436_military-helmets_assembling-helmets_dipping-into-paint-tanks_wooden-crates

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Yes filmed at the Ford Plant in Philadelphia this film all ready loaded on page one of this post

Interesting film though.

 

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Sorry Leon, I didn't realize this was already on the site. I was thinking of trying to duplicate the packing crate for the helmets though. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi, so a while ago I got a Brodie helmet from my grandfather and I was trying to get the markings identified. The inside leather is pretty crumbled and damaged from sitting in an apartment for a long time doing nothing but if anyone could help me out that would be great! The marking appears to read C2 but I could be wrong and there is a very very faded name in the last picture which I believe says something along the lines of F.C. Schilio

 

thank you!

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Welcome to the forum, the helmet you have is stamp ZC2 you can just make out the letter Z in front

of the letter C. The ZC marked helmets were made by Edward G Budd manufacturing Co Philadelphia.

The helmet has been Refurbished and Modified with a new leather liner and web chinstrap sometime.

between 1932 and 1936 these modified helmets were called the M1917A1 ( Kelly Helmet ).

The helmet shell is the WW1 m1917, hope this helps.

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Yes, very nice, the stamp looks like "ZC 217". 

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Nephew has a Brodie helmet with american chin strap rivets. However the stamp underneath M/A 80.  I am not finding this stamp code in US or British. Any idea what this means? 
thanks! 

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Welcome to the forum Hannah the helmet is British made by J&J. Maxfield & Sons Ltd of Sheffield

The Steel Supplier was Edgar Allen & Co Ltd of Sheffield, this could be one of the British helmets

used by the American in WW1  and the split pins replaced by rivets at some time.

Hope this helps.

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Hello Hannah, could you post an image if you get the chance? The US forces used these helmets for some time, and it is not uncommon to see repairs or parts swapped out as needed. Most of the US forces in WW1 used the British made helmets until production could meet the demand in the US. Also the US forces did not immediately leave after the war, they had occupational duties. Additionally some of these helmets made there way to US possessions such as the Philippines, and some even underwent conversion to the M1917A1 Kelly helmets. 

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On 08/04/2021 at 08:00, Gildwiller1918 said:

Hello Hannah, could you post an image if you get the chance? The US forces used these helmets for some time, and it is not uncommon to see repairs or parts swapped out as needed. Most of the US forces in WW1 used the British made helmets until production could meet the demand in the US. Also the US forces did not immediately leave after the war, they had occupational duties. Additionally some of these helmets made there way to US possessions such as the Philippines, and some even underwent conversion to the M1917A1 Kelly helmets. 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Period photo's from the Edward G. Budd factory, making M1917 helmets. I have labeled each photo to explain the process, however they are not in correct order, for some reason the photos get jumbled up when loading, so my apologies. 

Images from National Archives

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Steel blanks stacked up for future helmets

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Steel blanks ready for first punching

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Helmets after first punch

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Helmets after second punch

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More helmets going into press for second punch

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Helmets coming out of press from second punch

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Worker making punches into steel blanks for press plate to line up properly

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Workers adding steel banding to rim of helmet

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Cart full of helmets being transported across the factory

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Inspection process after second stamping

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More helmets going through second stamping

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Welding the helmet rim band into place

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Punching holes for chinstrap lugs

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Mounting rivets into place for chinstrap lugs

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View of the factory floor

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Finished helmets being trucked to paint department

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Thanks Leon, I found images of two other factories as well. I will post at a later date.  In the 3rd photo from the bottom, you can see the stamp on the rim of the helmet, "ZC 315", although the numbers are not that clear, it is definitely ZC for the Budd factory. 

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