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How to tell if a Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Class is Real or Fake?


Arran Sinclair

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The Iron Cross is ok, apparently real silver (and iron). The maker KO has been described already on several posts on this theme, see there. The ribbon appears to be excellently woven, could be older, hard to tell from a photo, however, it should be black and white, unless this has aged and turned a golden brown colour or has been dyed(!) by someone. I would keep the ribbon, but try to get a correct replacement. Get the ribbon checked by someone who knows.

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Thank you Fritz! My first thought on the ribbon was smoke damage or aging but the gold/yellow  colouring is very consistent, even on the folded parts of the ribbon that would not have been exposed. I have no idea why someone would dye it, but I haven't been able to find anything else that matches what I have. 

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Sometimes tea is used to stain or dye lighter fabrics to simulate age. Its possible with your ribbon as the staining looks uniform. As Fritz said, I would look for a replacement ribbon. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

What do you mean by a "safety pin"?

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Please post a picture of the cross Jordan 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi everyone,

I have just joined the forum as I found this interesting thread while browsing on-line. German medals are not a core part of my medal collection and I have not handled many, so I am a real amateur here, thus I wanted to get the opinion of some experts. This is an Iron Cross 2nd class that I was given as a present getting on for 40 years ago and I had always assumed it was a copy, but I would welcome your opinion, just so that I know either way. I can send close-ups of any parts of the medal or ribbon if you need them.

thanks in advance,

Rob

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31 reverse.JPG

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Looks like the cross and ribbon are copies. Have you tried the magnet test? The core should be iron. The ring also seems to be open.  Iron Cross rings should be closed/welded.

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8 hours ago, Fritz said:

Looks like the cross and ribbon are copies. Have you tried the magnet test? The core should be iron. The ring also seems to be open.  Iron Cross rings should be closed/welded.

Thanks Fritz,

I will dig it out and try the magnet test but I am not at all surprised (and not disappointed) that you think it's a copy. I had always suspected as much as it never felt quite right, even with my lack of knowledge of German medals

best wishes

Rob

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  • 1 month later...

I've found an Iron Cross (WWI edition) in some of my great-grandfather's things. Every legitimacy test seems to check out, except for the maker's imprint on the ring: Instead of "KO", it's an "A".  Is this simply a case of a different manufacturer?

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Not all Iron Crosses were marked KO, here is a list of known makers, which I have copied from another source:

Folgende Buchstabenkürzel können bestimmten Herstellern der 2.Klasse zugeordnet werden:
– CD – Carl Dillenius, auch mit Silberstempel- / – Fr, FR, Fr im Rahmen – Gebrüder Friedländer, Berlin/– G – J. Godet & Sohn, Berlin oder Glaser & Sohn, Dresden/ – K.M.S.T., K.M.St., KMST, K.M., KM, auch mit Silberstempel – Königliche Münze Stuttgart/ – KO – Klein & Quenzer, Oberstein auch mit Silberstempel/– S-W, S&W – Sy & Wagner, Berlin auch mit Silberstempel/– we, We – J.H. Werner/– WS, W.S., W&S, WuS, JW, J.W., J.W.S. – alle Joh.Wagner & Sohn, Berlin/– D – Wilhelm Deumer, Lüdenscheid (möglich auch Deschler, München) /– K, K im Rahmen- W. Kluge & Co./ – N – C.E. Neuhaus & Söhne, Berlin/– R – E.Rosenthal & Sohn/ – S – Heinrich Schneider, Leipzig, auch Schaper oder Scharfenberg möglich/– WILM – H.J. Wilm, Berlin auch mit Silberstempel/– Z –H. Zehn, Berlin/– E:W, E.W – Emil Wiechmann/– LW – Luis Werner/– R.Sch. – Richard Schulze, Friedrichshagen/– LV (mit und ohne Zahl)-Lieferungsverband für Eiserne Kreuze/– H – F. Hoffstätter, Bonn/– M – B.H. Mayer, Pforzheim/– MM – Meyle & Mayer, Pforzheim /Hersteller im 3.Reich kennzeichneten mit der LDO-Nummer z.B. L/10,…,L/52 u.ä.

Folgende Buchstabenkürzel können keinem bestimmten Hersteller zugewiesen werden, sind aber belegt:
– A –(wird auch dem Hersteller F.A. Assmann zugeordnet aber nicht belegt) keine 1.Klasse/ – B – (möglicherweise Hersteller Bury & Leonhard, Hanau)/– HB –keine 1.Klasse/– H.B.G.- keine 2.Klasse, möglich dass HB und H.B.G. ein Hersteller ist/– HTB – keine 2.Klasse (langer Querstrich des T)/– K.A.G. – 1.und 2.Klasse/– KP –keine 1.Klasse/– +(M)+auch mit Silberstempel,keine 1.Klasse/– MEH –auch mit Silberstempel,keine 1.Klasse/– V –keine 1. Klasse/– Wappen mit 3 Kreisen –Silberstempel, keine 2.Klasse/– Y –Silberstempel/– Quadrat –keine 2.Klasse (könnte auch eine Abnahmepunze sein)

 

 

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2 hours ago, Fritz said:

Not all Iron Crosses were marked KO, here is a list of known makers, which I have copied from another source:

That's extremely useful, thank you! I'm sure it'll help other people beyond me as well to identify theirs' manufacturer.

The one I have is unmistakably 2nd-class, so I've probably misread either the "H" or "R" mark as an "A". 

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The 2nd class was worn on a ribbon, so it should have a ring and have reverse details, the 1st class is a pinback decoration and the reverse is plain silver with a large pin. See previous posts on this topic.

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Hi guys,

I recently buy this from a Chinese seller. But I don't know its fake or real. Can someone help me to take a look? I'll be appreciate. :D

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Always hard to tell from a photo but it certainly looks OK including the ribbon, if it is a copy it is a very good one, are there no stamps on the ring? 

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As Kenny said, it is hard to tell from a photo. It does look really good though. I know that sometimes vendors in that region buy an original to make templates from, so its not implausible that a real one would come from that region. Check for stamps on the ring that the ribbon connects with. 

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Hi guy,

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this 1914 iron cross I bought online, I purchased a tin with various items which resembles something returned from a returned soldier. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hdvDF11xTo7REAui7

I have done the magnet test, can confirm the inner piece is seperate. My only worry is there is no marking on the loop, besides a small dot which could be wear?

If anyone is able to shed some light it would be much appreciated :) 

Cain

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both of these crosses are OK 

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  • 1 month later...

 I recently picked up my first batch of medals from a local auction. A 1914 2nd class iron cross was among them. I have a feeling it's a reproduction, but don't really have any way to check as I'm incredibly new to this.

First it's magnetic; am I supposed to check if certain parts of it are magnetic or not?

Secondly, I can see the edges of the ribbon seem to have that horizontal threading (forget what's it's called) which I hear is a good sign

Finally, the outer edge seems to be painted which I'm not seeing on a lot of online pictures of legit medals.

Pics attached, any help is much appreciated.

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I can make out a stamp on the ring, any chance we can get a better look? 

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Welcome to the forum Berg, the cross is original, but just heading out now so can't check the maker, Fritz should be able to identify it for you, he is very good with WW1 German items. 

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It's an original. The paint on the edge is nothing other than silver tarnish/patina, the core is made of iron. I would not clean it or do anything, the ribbon is also original. The W on the ring could be Wilm or Wagner, both well known makers.

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