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How to tell if a Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Class is Real or Fake?


Arran Sinclair

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Hi,

I'm sure this gets asked a lot but i was wondering what you look for when looking to see if an Iron Cross is fake. This applies to both wars and 1st and 2nd classes.

 

Cheers 

Arran

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Hi Arran, there is no easy answer to that as each Iron cross maker has slight differences. From a very basic point of view the Iron Cross should be made of three separate pieces a silver frame with an Iron core, a maker mark is also a good sign. However the fakes are now made in three pieces, also with maker marks so that way of telling is quite out dated now. If you have an Iron Cross you are not sure of, best bet is to bring it into the shop next time you are in and I can check it for you.      

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Most WW1 Iron Cross 2nd class have a real silver frame, but not always. Another inidication is a magnet test, the iron core should respond, although not all cores were of iron, especially on some of the 1st Class pieces, both WW1 and WW2.  WW2 Iron Crosses were usually never pure silver, and the 1st Class pieces could have a core of iron, brass, zinc or other metals, an iron core being the most desirable from the collector's point of view. An iron core may also have traces of rust after over one hundred years - or less, in the case of WW2 examples. Normally, the pin and reverse are almost a sure indication of originality, the pins can of course vary in shape. A maker's mark is also more desireable, there are originals with and without maker's marks.  Before buying, it is best to make sure and get a good book or two on the subject, and to view as many (original) iron crosses as possible, before being sure as to whether a piece is original or not.
In the 1960s and 1970s excellent copies were produced, but were usually honestly declared as copies, and much cheaper than an original, a good 1st Class copy would cost about one pound. Usually the black finish would give it away, copies never had the quality black finish of originals, also the form of the swastika, especially on 1st Class examples was different to originals, the copy swastikas  being too thick , too "rigid" and too sharp, and the black finish being too matt.

On the other hand, especially in the WW1 period as with 1st Class examples, there are two main categories, being,
examples which were awarded (Verliehenes Exemplar) or
examples purchased extra by the recipient, (Extra-, Privatstück or Zweitfertigung)  or those produced after WW1 as an extra or replacement for a lost decoration, WW1 Iron Crosses were even produced in some numbers during WW2, when the recipient needed a replacement or an extra piece.

It is also known that there are many 1870 1st Class examples on the market (even in real silver), with an inscription on the reverse as: Wagner, 14-Loth, these are usually copies, said to originate from Hungary.  Up till a few years ago, Knight's Crosses in real silver were being produced in the USA, these cost a bit more, but at a fraction of the original. Since then, some of these may have since  been passed on as originals, that is always the danger.

In Austria many good copies were produced during the postwar years by the original makers in Austria, now illegal. Production of these items has long been illegal in the European Union, in the past, most copies originated from non EU countries, and today also from Eastern Europe, but the quality is usually miserable. Japan and the Far East are known to make copies. Some other high grade items have been produced in Thailand for many years now.

Some examples:

image.png.5ae1f4d93014958a99b4ac7a2b29fdeb.png,

Iron Cross 2nd Class 1939, averse and reverse. In both cases the ribbon ring is stamped with the maker's number (not always present)
The example on the left has much of the original (silvered) finish remaining, to the right, most of the finish is gone. Note the form of the swastika.
To the left: Maker 65, the example on the right either 3 or 8.

image.png.91175df6c0bb2df57dcef5965ae63759.png

An example of the 1st Class in case of issue, much of the blackening of the centre has worn off, revealing the underlying iron, a much worn example.image.png.9340aaaad5e9479cec32957d641fb3d0.png

Reverse of same decoration. This had been individually engraved with the initials of the recipient plus date awarded, 4.I.1941
The pin hook is a period repair, and was originally of white metal as per the rest, a thick piece of copper wire has neatly been brazed on as a replacement. Note form of broad pin and hinge.

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The 1939 bar to the Iron Cross 1914 2nd Class, which was worn on the 1914 ribbon, and in the second buttonhole on the front of the tunic. The Iron Cross in the same class cound not be awarded a second time, so the 1939 bar was introduced. Same applied to the First Class, bar was then worn above the decoration. As worn by a veteran of both wars. This example as removed from a tunic. To the right an original case for the Iron Cross 1st Class.

 

image.png.b77a1011f6c59f41ff25e2177a33e9b8.png

An example of a 1914 First Class decoration. This would be a "second" or private purchase piece,
and not the actual example as awarded. The core is of iron, the 2-piece frame is of a silver alloy.
There is no maker's mark, and this particular example can be described as "convex" (curved, not flat),
 but in the form favoured by many wearers.

image.png.46ee2767c88d786676869081f8f680cd.png

The reverse, showing remains of the fine original finish over the silver alloy.
The broad pin is unusal, being rather chunky and with traces of filing, and differs slighly from the often encounted "coke-bottle"
or tapered shape, as known to collectors. Decoration shows much wear, and some
tarnishing to the finish.

image.png.129780645b5f26f5d4cfa6e0b125b3d5.png

image.png.047364ec8085dd04377f1ad88a972ab8.png

Eisernes Kreuz 1914 1. Klasse
Silver example marked  S.W for Sy & Wagner, Berlin
Private purchase example, convex with silver alloy content

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Eisernes Kreuz 1914, 2. Klasse, am Band für Kämpfer. Silver/iron, 2 examples, no visible maker's mark
Eisernes Kreuz 1914, 2. Klasse, am Band für Nichtkämpfer. Silver/iron, set ribbon "white" ribbon for non-combattants, has been removed from a group

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image.png.5c0a345dc4b79bfd67b6c9da2aecd621.png

Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse 1870
2 examples First example manufactured around 1890, no maker's mark. Second example, as awarded, here with an old repair to ring loop, and the iron core is broken in three places, silver frame. This example is with the Jubilee oakleaf of 1895, silver, one prong missing. A much worn example. Rare

image.png.73ef0336cc2865ce298b0d6fb64d2651.png

A further EK2 1939, mounted and worn by a soldier of the Luftwaffe.

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  • 5 months later...

Further examples added

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  • 2 weeks later...

What do you all think of this one...I personally think it's a nice looking fake. It is magnetic, the pin is marked "L/4" I think...I can't find any information for a maker with this abbreviation. So I think it's a nice fantasy piece, the black portion of the cross looks too new to me. 

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The wear around the swastika looks too new, iron would darken or rust somewhat. Being iron does not make it safer, and putting an artificial patina on is no problem nowadays. The form of the needlle is somewhat rigid, not smoothened from wear, there is some wear to the ribbed front, but not completely convincing. Ask a few more opinions. Perhaps the black parts have been overpainted.

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Well, in my opinion it is a fake until proven otherwise. It seems that almost everything is being reproduced or faked nowadays, no matter the era or conflict. Good for reenactors, TV and movies, etc, but no so for collectors.

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Agreed it is a copy, there was no L/4  the numbering system started with L/10 

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On 29/10/2019 at 23:39, Gildwiller1918 said:

Well, in my opinion it is a fake until proven otherwise. It seems that almost everything is being reproduced or faked nowadays, no matter the era or conflict. Good for reenactors, TV and movies, etc, but no so for collectors.

The cross was never worn anyway - I mean the 2nd class (except rarely as a group), just the ribbon in the buttonhole.

There are so many fakes being passed as originals, this should normally be a criminal offence, especially as it often concerns high values.
However, there are still no special laws protecting the honest collector. If you buy a car or any other product, you have a guarantee, and can
claim your rights of return against refund or compensation, but as a collector you have to rely on the integrity of the dealer, apart from your own "common sense" and experience.

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I thought this would be a good place to post that medal, to show others what to look out for. There are so many fakes out there, its crazy. At the military show in the State Capital, which happens every quarter, there are tables full of WW2 German stuff, and of course everything in "original" according to the dealers. 

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  • 1 year later...

Greetings! I recently inherited a house from my aunt. Among her personal belongings I have found an iron cross. I tried to look online to see what it’s worth, but after going through dozens of pages and several hundred images, nothing similar was found. Can you please help? Thank you, Frank

 

4-CA904-CD-6-B33-4-F93-B08-E-DED227526-B

A93-C67-E0-35-FD-4-FF2-9017-CE4-AF0860-C

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Hi Frank welcome to the forum, I'm afraid what you have is a cast copy. It is meant to be a war merit cross first class without swords but the reverse is all wrong.      

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Compare with two original examples below and reverse with pin system.  Your example is some sort of copy, presumably older, with a primitive pin system,
the question is, who made it and when, and under what circumstances. I have heard of awards being made by prisoners of war, making a cast mould from an original, and melting down some sort of lead mixture from old toothpaste tubes. So before we dismiss your example as a simple fake, it could well be an older copy, or simply a crude postwar attempt to make one, one way or the other, we shall never know. However, it would never reach the value of a proper original. Going from this, it would be difficult to assess the value, better to get a lot more opinions on this. It would be interesting to determine the metal content of this piece.

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It could be an old movie prop, maybe even from a famous film but without provenance there would be no great value to it. There is also the chance it is an original badge and some one has repaired it by replacing the pin set up but again I think this unlikely, POW made is possible but difficult to prove.   

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If it were POW made, it would never have had a proper pin anyway. Badge on right is original, the needle is an old provisional replacement.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello. I would like to know if this World War 1 iron cross 1st class medal is real or fake. The seller is from Bubenheim, Germany so it seems like a trustworthy source. Price is around $170. My concern is that the silver around the cross looks like it has been painted over. Is this simply because this is an iron cross that does not have the silver rim or is it a fake. Many thanks :))

Picture 1 of 5

 

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Hi Boris, welcome to the forum, having the paint go onto the inner beading is not a bad thing and is seen on originals, however seeing the paint on the outer frame is odd.  In fact the whole Iron cross looks rather odd, if I were you I would wait for a better example, what do you think Fritz? 

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Hello Borris, while not an expert on these, just because the seller is from Germany does not mean they are automatically a viable and trusted source. I have bought WW2 and WW1 items from Germany vendors that said they were original, but they were not. The middle portion looks as though the paint has been touched up and ran underneath. These crosses are not uncommon and are usually cheaper than the WW2 counterparts, if suspicious, keep shopping. 

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Not the nicest example I have seen, outer is not silver, looks like repainted. Best to wait till you find a nicer one, that's why the price is so low, they cost a bit more in recent years, for a really nice example with a prominent maker you may have to pay quite a sum nowadays.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi guys, I’m new in the forum. Today I bought a Iron cross 2nd class from a seller in Bulgaria. I know it is a fake, but do you guys think is a good copy? What are your opinions?

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First of all, never mounted on a pin like this and never stitched in that manner. Apart from being too bright, the ring loop is completely wrong, compare with known originals. Otherwise the cross looks ok as suitable for a theatre or film copy, but not in a collection in a glass case. I certainly would not have bought it and I hope you did not pay much for it. A combination of Eastern Europe and the internet is not a good source for buying. Buy from a reputable address with a guarantee.
I have heard from a reliable source, that these examples are made in China and marketed as "deutscher Verdienstorden", not quite the right designation.

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This example was made in China, I have since heard, of current production.

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Hi all! I am new to this forum and wanted to to get an opinion on this WW1 Iron Cross 2nd Class that I picked up a few years ago from a Canadian seller. I checked it with a magnet and the core is magnetic, and the border appears to have some tarnish/patina to it. The ring appears to be marked K.O, but the ribbon that it came with is black/gold which I have never seen before. I'm not sure if this is just an unrelated ribbon that was matched with the medal, or if there is any significance to it, or a sign that it is fake?

 

I have since learned my lesson  about buying German items on a fake WW2 EK2 (everything German is fake until proven otherwise). Does this look authentic, or like another learning experience?

 

Thank you!

 

 

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