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CluelessTommy

Help dating/Identifying military photos

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Hello all,

I’ve found some old photos and postcards from some of my relatives time in the millitary, many will appear on here at some point as there are some interesting ones and some I have questions about.

However this is one of the later, could anyone date the picture from this postcard?

also what are the chances that this was a personal picture put on card or is it just a generic one?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Jack

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Portrait photo Jack WW1 period no way to date it without a post date stamp.

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They are certainly from the Royal Artillery, the bandeliers and riding breeches indicate that they are the horse-drawn field artillery, and still wearing the stiff top peaked cap as worn at the beginning of the war before the soft cap was introduced, former was still worn as an off duty headdress.

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Hi Jack, yes these were personal portraits so one of the soldiers is probably a relative of yours or maybe both if they are brothers,  I agree, early war probably 1914 or 15.   

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Thanks for all the help,

I believe one of them men could be my great granddad, I have his medals from the first world war that have R.H.A on them and my thinking was that it stood for Royal Horse Artillery, so upon seeing the cap badge thought that if this was from the right period then one could be him. I shall have to look into accessing his war records or keep looking and see if I can find a named photo somewhere. 

Thanks again,

Jack

Edit: Turns out I didn't read R.H.A. off a medal but rather off one of the record office forms that accompanied one. And it turns out the full text was actually R.H. & R.F.A. So it appears that I can't read. He was in the field artillery and I have found his record online in various places but you have to pay to see it. Are some sites better than others in terms of information given or are they all the same?

Sorry for the mistake,

Regards,

Jack

Edited by CluelessTommy
Being an idiot
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Another photo, this time from the Second World War, that I would appreciate some thoughts on,

Although it’s hard to tell I think the badge to be that o the Argyll and Sutherland hylanders, but if anyone has any other Ideas i’d be happy to hear them.

I was thinking the patch could be that of the 1st or second army as I think I can see the inner sword in the cross, is there any way to tell the difference? 

I have not seen many pictures of lanyards being worn during the Second World War, so I was wondering why this was?, I searched for pictures of members of the Argyll and Sutherland and also other Scottish units but next to none were wearing one. 

As always any help appreciated,

Regards Jack

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Are you sure this is not 8th Army, they had a very similar patch? The best way is also to compare the photo with some original cap badges, if you have these.
The dicing around the cap should also give some indication, although I am no expert at this, I'm sure several of the forum members will know this.
The lanyard would probably not have been worn in the field. A former neighbour of mine was a paratroop in WW2 and later as Territorial after WW2, on his 1950 battledress he wore a white lanyard, plus the paratroops wings and the combined operations badges on each, and as shoulder titles Royal Army Catering Corps, white on yellow, as well as a red beret with the famous parachutists badge. Together with his battledress (with khaki shirt and tie) he wore blankoed webbing gaiters, polished hobnail boots, a 37 pattern belt with No.4 Mk.2 spike bayonet and altogether looked impressive on the street, when he went to and came from occasional call up exercises with the Territorials

 

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The 8th army was also a possibility however the patches I've have only seen the shield on a black backing and the shield its self has a scalloped top rather than a flat one in the photo. I also believe i can see a faint cross inside the larger cross which could be the sword on the 1st and 2nd armies patch that is not present on the 8th. 

I used the thread on here to help identify the glengarry, I think the Kings own Scottish borders used the same dicing but I don't think the shape of the cap badge fits with the one in the photo as well as the Argyll and Sutherland one does but its a hard call. Unfortunately I don't have any actual ones to compare it to and no other information to go on.

Thanks for the help so far,

Jack

1st photo: 1st army patch

2nd photo: 2nd army patch

3rd photo: 8th army patch

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He's certainly an Argyll, but the shield is harder because it's in black and white, if you could research who the Argyll's served with during WW2 that would be the way to go. There are about ten similar shields, 21st Army group is another possibility.     

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Thanks a lot, I hadn’t thought of the 21st. 

It turns out the Argyll’s were all over the place during the war and many of the battalions suffered heavy casualties leading them to being absorbed and re formed a lot and then being moved all over the place again, so that makes tracing the patch a lot harder but I’ll have a proper read later today and see if I can rule out a few options. 

Thanks again,

Jack

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It does look like 8th Army with the yellow and white shield, I'm struggling to see a sword. Another possibility is that the shield was added by the photographer, I have seen this before especially with German photos when an Iron cross was added for example. If the badge was added by the photographer to denote his service in the 8th Army then perhaps this is why the scalloped top was left out.       

added.jpg

Here is a German officer with Knights Cross added, this was commonly done by the photographer to update photos they had of the recipient, when it would be too difficult to obtain an up to date photo with the new awards. You can also see this on photos of individuals who received awards but were killed shortly afterwards when a photo of them with the new award was never taken. So perhaps this relative sadly did not survive the war and fell when serving with the 8th Army.  
 

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Yes the photo I uploaded doesn't show the patch very clearly I've added another two to this which hopefully show what I believe to be the sword however it is still not as clear as I hoped.

I had never heard of photos being edited in this way before, its not to my taste as I think photos should be left unedited as to show things exactly how they were but each to their own. He did survive the war so I that makes this less likely but I guess still could of happened.  

Thanks for the help, hopefully the photos clear this up a little,

Jack

You can hopefully see the hilt of the sword in the centre of the cross and the faint line of the blade going down the centre.

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Hi Tommy, yes there certainly seems to be a cross on the insignia, maybe it is First Army? 

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The Arylls were in both so it could be either, I’m looking to see if I have any other information on him that might help as otherwise I think it is just a 50/50 guess.

 

 

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