leon21 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I'm sure we have all seen these plaques, but would you know who made them by looking at one here are a few useful tips on identification marks. The designer of the plaque was Edward Carter Preston who's initials can be seen in front of the lions front legs ie= E.CR.P. They were initially made at the "Memorial Plaque Factory" 54/56 Church Road Acton London W3 from 1919. Early Acton made plaques did not have a number stamped on them, but later ones have a number stamped behind the lions back leg also all Acton made plaques have a wide letter "H" the true function of the stamped numbers is not know, it might be that they identified the work of a given founder/bronze casting worker or was part of a quality control batch number, no plaques to Naval casualties were made by the Acton factory. In December 1920 manufacture was moved to the "Royal Arsenal Woolwich" London SE.18, plaques manufactured here can be identified by the WA in a circle stamp mark on the back of the plaque and a number stamped between tail and back leg. The mould was altered by Edward Carter Preston later, he made the wide "H" into a narrow "H" so he could add the letter "S" for the Women casualties in all 1500 plaques were made and all have the number 11 stamped on them. The mould was changed again removing the letter "S" but kept the narrow letter "H" most of the Naval casualties have plaques with the narrow "H" and just a few were made with the wide letter "H" not sure why the Navel casualties were left till last. Smaller or miniature unofficial bronze plaque were produced by other manufacturers, for example Wright and Sons of Edge- ware Middlesex who sold them for 13 shilling and sixpence each with the name left blank. Here are some examples. The plaques read the words She/He Died For Freedom and Honour round the edge. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 Part two Documents. The soldiers next of kin would have also been sent a letter of condolence and scroll with the soldiers name rank and Regiment. The plaque would be sent out in a white or brown envelope, inside would be the plaque in a brown cardboard box and also there would be a issue/receipt card and prepaid return addressed envelope, each soldier was logged/listed under an individual number stamped on the card which had to be signed and returned to the factory. See examples. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buster Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 I remember buying those plaques from the Barras 40 years ago! They where usually still in the Brown foldy out envelope, pity there not the same price now! You where getting them for pennys back then. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 20, 2017 Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 Here we have a good example of a Memorial Scroll with original postal tube and a letter of Condolence from No1 Infantry Record Office York. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Lance Sergeant (lance corporal is still in use) is stated in text, this I have never heard before, I'm sure this title was later abolished. Many of the old German ranks were abolished after WW1. Do you know any more about this? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted May 20, 2017 Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 Hi Paul, the rank of lance sergeant was an appointment given to a corporal so that they could fill a post usually held by a sergeant. The appointment could be removed by the soldiers Commanding Officer unlike a full sergeant who could only be demoted by court martial, the rank of lance sergeant was abolished in most regiments and corps in 1946. The appointment is retained now only in the Foot Guards and Honourable Artillery Company in these regiments today all corporals are automatically appointed lance sergeant on their promotion and wear three white stripes were a full sergeant wears gold stripes. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 Here's an unusual death plaque to Lance Corporal Hubert Sutton of the Surrey Yeomanry ( Queen Mary's Regiment ). He was born on 25.10.1892 in Stockwell Surrey, he joined A Squadron of the Surrey Yeomanry ( Territorial Force ) at West Croydon Clapham in 1913. On the outbreak of war he volunteered for Foreign service and was transferred to C Squadron with service No 1757, part of 29 Division based in Warwickshire during Jan 1915. They embarked at Avonmouth for Egypt on 17th March and arrived in Alexandria on 2nd April C Squadron was then transferred to Imbos on 26th June were the troops initially served at General Headquarters, and it was during this period that he was promoted to Lance Corporal. Following this he was to see service in the Dardanelles campaign fighting in the trenches at Gallipoli. Lance Corporal H. Sutton lost his life due to disease contracted in the trenches, and died on board ship of Enteritis on the 21st August 1915, the most likely cause was by eating or drinking food or water contaminated with the E-Coli bacteria which proved fatal. He was laid to rest at Pieta Military Cemetery in Malta grave 2 row 10 plot A, buried with him are 2 other soldiers they are as follows Corporal J. Harrison 1444 Royal Army Vet Corps attached to 87th Infantry Brigade who died on 24th August 1915 aged 58, of 3 Grove Lane Retford Nottingham born 1857 and husband of Margaret E Harrison he was in the 18th Mobile Veterinary Section of 29th Division, it was in effect a first aid unit, providing medical care for sick, wounded or injured horses used by the division. The other soldier is private H Airey 17444 of 6th Loyal North Lancashire Regiment little is known about him but did find out how he died, he was killed while supporting the 16th Australian Battalion in trenches near Aghyl Dere on the 25th August 1915. I found Hubert Sutton's Obituary in De Ruyigny roll of honour Vol 1 page 347, it Quotes that he was interested in literature and was a good writer, his parents published a posthumous work entitled "Fragments of Verse" and a excerpt from his poetry was engraved on his headstone which reads "Love And Battle Make Life Nobel But Time Flies Fast And Time Is Long" H.S. On the rear of his Death Plaque the following words are engraved ( Surrey Yeoman met his Death at Gallipoli 1915 Buried at Malta aged 23 ). Here are a few Documents. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gildwiller1918 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Interesting rank, I had seen several of those plaques while I was in England, a lot of them were for sale as the younger generations didn't want them anymore. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gildwiller1918 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Reproductions are now being made, supposedly to replace missing ones...below is an example of a newly made version. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 The original example is very nice, especially the engraving to the rear. The modern copy looks too cheap with that modern finish, if it had the right finish, it would look better. I would have placed this topic under section "British Medals" (?) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Andrew Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 moved to British medals 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gildwiller1918 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Here is another fake, sold on Amazon if you can believe that. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 No name! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon21 Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 These are sold blank so you can have a name added later, or some will add the name for you. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 the obvious way to see a fake /space filler is that the original ones had cast names standing up wheras the repro's can only be engraved into. the repro specialists would not consider worth casting the name in individually on a one off basis wheras multiple casting blanks is cheaper. although you call them fakes they are being sold by dealers as space fillers while waiting for the original to come up. Collectors know but unsuspecting family members probably will not until they come to sell them. on the BMF, I keep the plaque list updated , currently there are over 3800 requests for missing plaques for collectors. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Kel Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 The history of the plaque design is interesting in itself. As far as I know it was decided that the public themselves, anyone (in the then Empire?) could submit a design, artists, service personnel, family members, a whole cross section of people submitted designs. The designs had to be submitted "anonymously", using a pseudonym, the artists real name remained sealed in a separate envelope or suchlike (so judging wasn't swayed by bias). The "winning" design was later chosen by committee. I remember reading through old library copies of the local WW1 dated newspaper, it publicised and followed the design completion closely from start to finish. Sort of interesting. The guy who designed the obverse of the British Victory Medal and the reverse of the Brit. War Medal, William McMillan (originally from Aberdeen), his submitted plaque design took third place in the competition, I think he won 50 quid as a reward. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Andrew Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 Do you have images of William McMillans design Ian, or any of the other designs? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Kel Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 I've never been able to find a photograph of the competition, runner-up designs, Kenny. I think the seven individual cash prize winning designs, once announced, were put on public display at the V&A Museum in London, you think photographs may exist of the display but I've not been able to track anything down yet. It would be interesting to see what the other artists put forward. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 MR Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Plaque_(medallion) may be a link at the bottom of the page with more info. at least this one hasnt been seen for a while https://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/fake_memorial_plaque/death.htm 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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