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Gunner65

Medals of the RND, Groningen Ephemera and Joinery

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Hi Guys,

 

I am a collector and researcher of medals and ephemera with a particular interest in the Royal Naval Division especially interested in 14 stars to RN and RM.

 

There is a post on the forum regarding Oswald Hesketh Hanson and as I am fortunate enough to have his 14 star and RNVR LSGC in my collection I felt it polite to share with the forum. I originally posted as an addition to the post Oswald Hanson but it was requested that it be removed !!!!

I am now starting my own post on Hanson and moving some material around. I apologise if you have already come across it on the forum.

 

 

 

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A little more on "Poor old Hanson"

 

Oswald Hesketh Hanson was born in Massworth, Buckinghamshire on 20 September 1873, the son of the Rev. H. Hanson, of Bournemouth. He was educated at Marlborough College and Trinity College, Cambridge, gaining a M.A.. Employed initially as a Solicitor’s Clerk, he qualified as Solicitor in 1898 and was a member of Beamish, Hanson, Airey and Feiling, of 60 Lincoln’s Inn-Field. Pre-war he served as an officer in the R.N.V.R. With the onset of war, he entered the France/Flanders theatre of war as a Lieutenant-Commander in the Benbow Battalion, Royal Naval Division. Hanson was involved in the operations around Antwerp, and in the retreat from that city, was one of the men captured from the train at Moerbeke on the night of 9 October 1914. With other men captured, he was taken to the rear but he was not destined to spend the duration of the war as a prisoner-of-war, for on 10 October 1914 he was shot.

Reports of his death vary. The Times, 23 November 1915, in an article entitled, ‘Fate of a British Officer, Judicial Murder’, states, ‘.... It was first believed that Lieutenant-Commander Hanson died at Halle, but it appears that he never reached the camp. On October 10 last year, while being marched along in the dark, ill and in a condition of delirium, he imagined that he saw British soldiers approaching. He called out to the visionary troops not to come near as the Germans were there. For this he was condemned by the Germans to be shot, and he was executed the following morning. His family have learned that the burial took place at Exaarde, in Belgium. ....’

The tale of an exhausted officer in delirium being executed for calling out to imaginary figures was one well suited for propaganda purposes. The truth of the matter was no less dramatic, and was reported in a letter from Commodore Henderson, dated 15 February 1918, stating evidence from Lieutenant-Commander F. C. Grover, Hawke Battalion, R.N.V.R. -

‘Poor Hanson was shot by the Germans on the 10th October 1914. He had struggled with a sentry who was about to fire on one of our own men trying to escape after we were taken prisoner on the night of the 9th, and under German Military Code such an act can be punished with death. I tried to get the sentence mitigated, and so did the Commandant of the troops guarding us, for it was evident that Hanson was overwrought by the fatigues of the previous days. The matter was referred to the highest authority; at that time, General von der Goltz was Military Governor of Belgium, but it was of no avail, and Hanson was shot by firing squad at midday, and is buried by the Church at Exaerde’.

Lieutenant-Commander Hanson’s final resting place was in the Dendermonde Communal Cemetery. His Great War medals, including the 1914 Star and clasp, were passed to his brother Wilfred in June 1919.

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Nice medal Gunner , welcome to the forum :thumbsup:

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"The Timbertown Follies" were a peirot troupe or cabaret act that were so successful they spent much of the war performing throughout Holland and not only in "Timbertown".

 

Aswell as sporting teams and regularly organised events, there were other performing societies within the camp such as Drama and Operatic societies that also performed regularly to help relieve the years of boredom endured by the internees.

 

I have posted a photo below of some "Follies" event programmes. I have an extensive collection of photos and programmes of performances by the Operatic society, Drama society and of course" The Timbertown Follies" I am in contact with Elizabeth Hicks daughter of Bay Hicks, a prominent member of the troupe.

 

 

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1914 star of Bay Hicks" Timbertown Follies" post-37092-0-44184000-1432983990_thumb.jpg courtesy of Elizabeth Hicks

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A little more on "Poor old Hanson"

 

Oswald Hesketh Hanson was born in Massworth, Buckinghamshire on 20 September 1873, the son of the Rev. H. Hanson, of Bournemouth. He was educated at Marlborough College and Trinity College, Cambridge, gaining a M.A.. Employed initially as a Solicitor’s Clerk, he qualified as Solicitor in 1898 and was a member of Beamish, Hanson, Airey and Feiling, of 60 Lincoln’s Inn-Field. Pre-war he served as an officer in the R.N.V.R. With the onset of war, he entered the France/Flanders theatre of war as a Lieutenant-Commander in the Benbow Battalion, Royal Naval Division. Hanson was involved in the operations around Antwerp, and in the retreat from that city, was one of the men captured from the train at Moerbeke on the night of 9 October 1914. With other men captured, he was taken to the rear but he was not destined to spend the duration of the war as a prisoner-of-war, for on 10 October 1914 he was shot.

Reports of his death vary. The Times, 23 November 1915, in an article entitled, ‘Fate of a British Officer, Judicial Murder’, states, ‘.... It was first believed that Lieutenant-Commander Hanson died at Halle, but it appears that he never reached the camp. On October 10 last year, while being marched along in the dark, ill and in a condition of delirium, he imagined that he saw British soldiers approaching. He called out to the visionary troops not to come near as the Germans were there. For this he was condemned by the Germans to be shot, and he was executed the following morning. His family have learned that the burial took place at Exaarde, in Belgium. ....’

The tale of an exhausted officer in delirium being executed for calling out to imaginary figures was one well suited for propaganda purposes. The truth of the matter was no less dramatic, and was reported in a letter from Commodore Henderson, dated 15 February 1918, stating evidence from Lieutenant-Commander F. C. Grover, Hawke Battalion, R.N.V.R. -

‘Poor Hanson was shot by the Germans on the 10th October 1914. He had struggled with a sentry who was about to fire on one of our own men trying to escape after we were taken prisoner on the night of the 9th, and under German Military Code such an act can be punished with death. I tried to get the sentence mitigated, and so did the Commandant of the troops guarding us, for it was evident that Hanson was overwrought by the fatigues of the previous days. The matter was referred to the highest authority; at that time, General von der Goltz was Military Governor of Belgium, but it was of no avail, and Hanson was shot by firing squad at midday, and is buried by the Church at Exaerde’.

Lieutenant-Commander Hanson’s final resting place was in the Dendermonde Communal Cemetery. His Great War medals, including the 1914 Star and clasp, were passed to his brother Wilfred in June 1919.

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Excellent, good piece of research, welcome to the forum Gunner.

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A little about the RNAS Armored cars and a group from my collection to Albert DUNN "Armored Cars"

 

Equipped with a variety of requisitioned motor vehicles, which had been hastily clad in boiler-plate and fitted with machine-guns prior to embarkation, and commanded by Captain C. F. Graham, “The Motor Bandits” (as the R.M. Armoured Car Section quickly became known) arrived in France in September 1914, and were allocated the task of assisting the R.N.A.S. Armoured Car Section in protecting the airfields around Dunkirk from attack by forward elements of the German cavalry.

On 3 October, as the Germans advanced on Antwerp, Captain Graham’s section was the first British unit to arrive in aid of the town’s defence, and in the following week provided the armed motor escort to the visiting First Sea Lord, The Rt. Hon. Winston Churchill. Following the subsequent withdrawal from Antwerp, “The Motor Bandits” accompanied the Naval Brigade to Ostend, where they were one of the last unit’s to depart as the Germans arrived, and journeyed thence back to Dunkirk. A few days later, however, the unit was ordered to carry out reconnaissance patrols in the Ypres sector. Blumberg’s history, The Sea Soldiers, takes up the story:

‘About 16 October Captain C. Graham was sent from Poperinghe by Commander Sampson with a section of three cars and 20 men to report to Sir T. Capper, commanding 7th Division, who sent them to recoinnoitre and get in touch with the German Cavalry, and this they did well in front of the Menin-Roulers road. On the 18th they went out again and got into action at 50 yards range, losing two men killed [Privates Oatley and Treagus]; fortunately the cars had been turned about and approached their objective backwards, so that they were able to pick up the men and effect their escape, whilst the 7th Division Artillery demolished the objective, a mill; the killed were buried in a field near Bercelaere.’

 

PLY 13938 A.E. DUNN

 

Albert Edward Dunn of Islington London enlisted in the Royal Marines 5.9.1907 at the age of 20 yrs, 8months, 19 days where he was posted to the Plymouth Division.

He served on numerous ships aswell as land bases which included, HMS. Pyramid, Isis, Gibraltar, Promtheus , Medea, Highflyer, where he maintained a VG character.

At the outbreak of WW1 hostilities Dunn was posted to Victory RM Brigade, Special service with the armoured car section

At Antwerp the Armoured car section Equipped with a variety of requisitioned motor vehicles, which had been hastily clad in boiler-plate and fitted with machine-guns prior to embarkation, and commanded by Captain C. F. Graham, “The Motor Bandits” (as the R.M. Armoured Car Section quickly became known) arrived in France in September 1914, and were allocated the task of assisting the R.N.A.S. Armoured Car Section in protecting the airfields around Dunkirk from attack by forward elements of the German cavalry.

On 3 October, as the Germans advanced on Antwerp, Captain Graham’s section was the first British unit to arrive in aid of the town’s defence, and in the following week provided the armed motor escort to the visiting First Sea Lord, The Rt. Hon. Winston Churchill. Following the subsequent withdrawal from Antwerp, “The Motor Bandits” accompanied the Naval Brigade to Ostend, where they were one of the last unit’s to depart as the Germans arrived, and journeyed thence back to Dunkirk.

There were only 55 1914 stars issued to the Armored car section RM Brigade

After serving in France and Flanders with the Armoured car section for the duration of the war, Dunn was taken Prisoner of War 23rd March 1918 in the Spring Offensive where he remained until hostilities ceased. his C.Os including Lieutenant-Colonel R. McN. Parsons, C.B. Repatriated in December 1918,

As soon as the war was over Dunn signed on for a second tour of duty, and was awarded his L.S. & G.C. in May 1922 and discharged as a Corporal in February 1928, when he enrolled in the Royal Fleet Reserve

His registration for civil employment document in Feb. 1928 confirms service of 21 years in the Royal Marines at the age of 41 years and 9 months a widower with 2 girls aged 3 and 1 boy aged 8 years.

 

Recalled in his old rank on the renewal of hostilities in September 1939, he later gained advancement to the acting rank of Sergeant and was appointed to duties in Defensively Equipped Merchant Ships (D.E.M.S.), his first seagoing engagement being in the S.S. Mantola from December 1939 until late May 1942, when he removed to the Mundra. A little over a month later, on 6 July, the Mundra was shelled, torpedoed and sunk by the Japanese submarine I-18 off St. Lucia Bay, Natal, 92 of her company being lost but Dunn being among the 150 or so survivors. This traumatic experience was to prove his last seagoing appointment and he returned to the U.K. in the Durban Castle in the following month.

Thereafter employed at D.E.M.S. bases in Cardiff, Southampton and Newport, he was involved in a train accident at the latter place in June 1943, and admitted to Royal Gwent Hospital suffering from a dislocated right hip and fractured ribs. And, as further verified by accompanying research, he died at St. Alban’s Hospital in March 1945.

 

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Regards

 

Gunner65

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"Landing at Cape Helles at the end of May 1915, the Royal Naval Division (RND) prepared to deliver an attack in what has become known as the Third Battle of Krithia. Amongst their ranks were the sailors of the Collingwood Battalion, who had done much of their military training in the practice trenches surrounding Blandford Camp during the winter of 1914/15.

On 4 June, the seven hundred strong Colingwood Battalion took part in the second phase of the attack. The battle started with a heavy bombardment and at 1200 hours the RND advanced and captured the enemy front line but suffered heavy causalities. At 1215 hours the Collingwood Battalion was to take over the advance but the communication trenches were choked with stretcher-bearers and wounded, which delayed the Battalion's move forward.

The attack finally went ahead, from the captured enemy trenches and the Collingwoods seized the Turkish second lines four hundred yards further on. However, the neighboring French Senegalese troops were driven back by a counter-attack, leaving the Battalion's right flank exposed. Flanking fire caused devastating casualities amongst the Collingwoods, with over five hundred men killed or wounded. The remnants of the Battalion withdrew but so heavy were the casualties that the Battalion was not reformed. A memorial to Dorset's naval infantry stands at Collingwood Corner on the Salisbury to Blandford Road."

 

 

It also took me some time to find a nice group to a Collingwood casualty. This one to James Brannan Munn

 

James Brannan Munn

Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve

Collingwood Bn.

Able Seaman

4 Jun 1915

Missing, assumed killed in action

Helles Memorial (MR 4)

Enlisted in the RNVR 15th December 1914 ; Collingwood Bn. 'D' Company 4th Platoon 4/3/15-4/6/15 DD.

Tyneside Z/2325

Reported by Tyneside Z/2354 AB F. Shilan: "I saw Munn hit & fall seriously wounded. No doubt that Munn was dead & told his brother, Deal/2174/S Private Thomas Anderson Munn, RND Divisional Train, that he was dead." (T.A. Munn, formerly Tyneside Z/3814, transferred to RM Supply & Transport Section 9/3/15) ; Born 15th May 1892. A Motor Warehouseman. At the time of his enlistment he was living at 86 Tamworth Rd., Newcastle-on-Tyne. His next of kin was listed as his Father, Joseph Stewart Munn, of 84 Hawes St., Newcastle-on-Tyne; later of: 22, Pine Street, Newcastle-on-Tyne, Northumberland. Sister of Miss M.A.A. Munn, of 42 Fern Avenue, Jesmond, Newcastle-on-Tyne.

 

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Gunner65

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RM Brigade and RND at Antwerp October 1914

 

 

On October 7, 1914, advancing German forces bombard the Belgian city of Antwerp, as Belgian troops and their British allies struggle to resist the onslaught.

After the mighty fortress city of Liege fell to the Germans in the opening weeks of World War I, King Albert I ordered the Belgian army’s remaining 65,000 troops in the region to retreat to the city of Antwerp, protected by a ring of 48 inner and outer forts and some 80,000 garrison troops. From Antwerp, Belgian forces conducted sorties in August and September 1914 designed to distract the German 1st Army, led by General Alexander von Kluck, from its attacks against the British and French over the French frontier. After von Kluck was forced to send four divisions to repel an attack from Antwerp on September 9, German Chief of Staff Helmuth von Moltke decided to send his men against Antwerp with the goal of capturing the city.

On September 28, five German divisions began bombing the outer ring of forts at Antwerp’s southeastern corner. Heavy artillery such as the famous Big Bertha—a 420-mm siege howitzer gun—made an immediate impact, arousing the concern of the British War Office, which determined to redeploy troops originally intended for the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) in France to Antwerp. After the Germans succeeded in penetrating two of the city’s forts on October 2, the British sent Winston Churchill, first lord of the Admiralty, to personally assess the situation. Churchill telegraphed his observations to Minister of War Lord H.H. Kitchener on October 4, stating that the Belgian troops were "weary and disheartened" and that the city’s ground was so waterlogged that it was impossible for the Belgians to dig trenches for its protection.

By October 5, some 8,000 troops of the British Royal Naval Division had arrived in Antwerp, transported from the port city of Ostend in London city buses commandeered for the war effort. The following day, a larger British force of 22,000 reached Ostend; after the French decided not to send any troops, however, the British command hesitated in sending their own force ahead. They hesitated too long: Though the British soldiers who did reach Antwerp were greeted with jubilant cries of "Vive les Anglais!" they were unable to withstand the German onslaught, which began with a fierce bombardment on the evening of October 7.

 

 

RMLI medal group to Antwerp casualty KIA 5th October 1914 at the Defence of Antwerp

 

 

John Robert Weddell

Royal Marine Light Infantry

Chatham Bn.

Private

5 Oct 1914

Killed in action

Nieuport Memorial (MR 31)

Enlisted 29/4/1895 ; Discharged "Free" on transfer to RFR 28/3/1905 ; Chatham Bn. at Ostend, Dunkirk & Defence of Antwerp 1914.

CH/8325(RFR/B/832)

Fleet Air Arm Museum papers missing ; Africa General Service Medal with clasp "Somaliland 1902-04" (HMS "Dryad") ; 1914 Star & clasp issued to widow 14/6/23 ; b.Ratho, Edinburgh 24/8/1876 ; Wife, C., 8 Hillwood Cottages, Ratho Station, Midlothian ; ADM/242 = Buried Lierre Military Cemetery, Belgium. (Believed buried in an "Unknown RMLI" grave in Schoonselhof Cemetery. All burials of RMLI were exhumed from Lierre & reburied in Schoonselhof Cemetery in 1920).

 

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Gunner65

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The 14 star is nice but the Edward VII RNVR LSGC awarded to Hanson is a RARE medal. Tamplin advised approx 75 issued.

 

LSGC to officers ??? MYB advises that the LSGC medal was issued to ratings only, this was not the case with the RNVR, I have found 7 RNVR officers that received the medal.

 

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Gunner 65

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very impressive collection Gunner , look forward to reading more :thumbsup:

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I know that this is a very old thread, but I really wish to talk about the information about Albert Edward Dunn.

I believe that this is actually Alfred Edmund Dunn, and my Grandfather.
I got his full service records from the Navy in about 2004, for my Dad, but since they they moved four times, downsizing massively each time due to my Dad's ill health and needing no stairs, and they have been lost.

I am planning on asking for them again, but the widower thing was a huge surprise to us at the time - the dead wife and children were completely unknown to my Dad.
Alfred Edmund Dunn then went on to marry Kathleen Kaye, my Dad's Mother, and he wasn't told about the other side of the family at all. We don't understand why; being a widower wasn't shameful - had he been divorced, then perhaps, but his wife having died wasn't anything to hide.
My Dad does have memories of playing with children who were older than him though, when he was very young - he always thought it was one of his cousins, Philip, but we made contact with Philip a decade or so ago, and he's younger than my Dad; my Dad was the oldest in his Mum's side of the family. So we wondered if he'd been playing with his half sisters and brother.
My Dad's father died when my Dad was 9, and I was sure he had died of bowel cancer, though there was something about his leg. My Dad was 9 though, and in those days they didn't really tell kids anything, and he certainly wasn't allowed to visit his father in hospital. That kind of attitude was around for a long time; we weren't allowed to visit my Dad in hospital when I was three, after he had a heart attack, and that was a early 80's! My big brother and sister weren't allowed either, and my sister was 10!

There are photos there of his medals, and there is a book that has a photo of the star, with the name side.
I really want to know if it's possible to get hold of his medals - Gunner65, do you know where they are?
Obviously I would get proof of being his descendent, and if they are in a private collection, I'd have to work out if the owner would be willing to sell, and if I could even afford that - I'm disabled and benefits are rather low.
I just wish I'd looked this up earlier - I had been planning on visiting my parents at the end of April / beginning of May, and recording my Dad, so that he could tell me all of his old stories, everything about his parents, and tales of his fascinating life. Unfortunately I was ill and had to put it off for a week or two, and then my Dad died suddenly on the 8th May.
So he'll never see the medals that his Dad earned, though he probably did when he was young, but he was born in 34, and obviously his Dad went off to war again when he was very young, so he didn't really see him much.

I've been pretty devestated by my Dad's death. We were incredibly close. I know that he wanted to look up his ancestry more - his Mum's side of the family came from Lithuania, and that was intriguing to us.
Today, with the centenary remembrance, I've been rather inspired to look up my Grandfather again.
Finding this post, with details on him, albeit with the wrong first names, it's rather overcome me. I can't believe that I managed to find these photos, and the photos of his 1914 Star in a book.
I didn't know about the armoured car stuff at all. When I got his records, my Dad was in hospital and had major surgery, so we didn't really have a chance to look through them properly, and deciphering the scrawl is difficult. We mainly saw that he had been widowed and that my Dad had more family; half sisters and a half brother, and that was enough of a shock!
I really want to see if I can find them as well, so anything I can find about him would be brilliant.

I do hope that I get a response. It would be pretty amazing if we found that his medals were in the possession of my Dad's half family; that would mean I found them and found my Dad's extended family as well!

Thanks to anyone who reads this and can help!

 

Nicola Dunn

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Hi Nicola,

I'll try to contact Gunner for you :thumbsup:

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In the meantime, I found this listing of his medals all in one lot!

I'm guessing this is what Gunner found, and I can only hope that he either bought them, or sold them. Either way, I might be able to get to speak to the current owner.

To allay anyone's fears - I'm not claiming ownership as a descendent - my Dad was abroad when his Mother died, long before he met my Mum, and he assumed that her things went into storage, but he didn't know what happened to them, and I can only assume that they were sold at some kind of auction when the lease ran out.
I'm kind of wondering if it would be possible to trace it all back to when they were originally sold - medals are much more easily traced than other items that we don't even know what there was. It would be really interesting to find the original auction and see what there was, and see if it's possible to track any of it down.
We have absolutely nothing of my Dad's parents, not even photographs. I find that really sad.
I wonder if there are photographs from my Granddad's service time.
Sorry, I guess because my Dad died this year I'm a bit sentimental about the attachments.
Even if the current owner isn't willing to sell them; I can provide a little bit more historical context to the medals, and they might have more research about the actual war activities that they can share with me.

I do have one question, what does the G.V.R Second Issue mean?
I've tried searching online, but I can only find other auctions of the medal, with no actual description of what it is. I think it's a long service one, but I'm not sure what the R would mean, or the second issue.
As you may have guessed, I'm not exactly a medal collector - I managed to find explanations of what the other ones were online. I don't really know anything about medals otherwise.
My Dad attained the rank of Corporal during his compulsory service, but he only did the two years that was required, so he didn't get medals, and we've never had medals around at home.

Thanks for any help,

Nicola
 

medal.jpg

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Hi Nicola,

I sent gunner a message but have not heard back from him yet, he is in Australia and I know he works away from home for several weeks at a time, hopefully will hear from him soon :thumbsup:

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It seems there's no response to this at all.

In case the medals have been sold on, or are sold on in the future, does anyone know how to create an alert of some kind with the major sales sites?
I don't know anything about buying medals, so I don't know the big auction sites, or where people would list these. I'm assuming collectors have systems to notify them of when particular medals are up for auction, to complete sets, so if anyone does do that, and could help me set up such a notification, then I can keep my eye out for if they come up in the future.

Thanks for the help!

Nicola

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Hi Nicola, 

I'm afraid I never got a reply from gunner, I think the reason for this is he probably wants to keep the medals, by the look of his collection this seems to be the area he specializes in so think it unlikely he will ever sell the medals. If I do hear from him I will let you know. Sorry the news was not better.   

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I can understand that he would want to keep them.
In which case, I'd just like to add the information to his own about them. He might find information helpful, and I'd be happy to answer any questions he has.
It just feels rather important to have the correct information, and I imagine for a collector, the more you can know about the person who earned the medals, the better.

 

Nicola
 

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I agree Nicola, hopefully he will log on at some point and you can share your information. I hope Gunner is OK as it's unusual for him not to reply.    

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