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THE ROYAL NAVAL DIVISION IN WW1


sommewalker

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A short piece on the ROYAL NAVAL DIVISION ,

and my time with them so far

with photos of their work in Groningen Holland in ww1,

through to my first visit to the ANCRE VALLEY Cemetery 2 years ago,

and my trip to YPRES on the 11-11-2014,

where I laid a wreath at the 20.00 Hrs last post ceremony on behalf of my Facebook group

and with my friend kim, (hes the tall one )

have a good read ,

 

63rd (Royal Naval) Division

Active
World War I
September 1914 – April 1919

Country
United Kingdom

Branch
Royal Navy; British Army

Type
Infantry

Engagements
Siege of Antwerp (1914)
Battle of Gallipoli (1915)
Battle of the Somme (1916)
Third Battle of Ypres (1917)

The 63rd (Royal Naval) Division was a United Kingdom infantry division which served during the First World War. It was originally formed as the Royal Naval Division at the outbreak of the war, from Royal Navy and Royal Marine reservists and volunteers who were not needed for service at sea, and fought at Antwerp and at Gallipoli. In 1916, following heavy losses among the original naval volunteers, it was transferred to the British Army as the 63rd (Royal Naval) Division, re-using the number from a disbanded Territorial Force division. As an Army unit, it fought on the Western Front for the remainder of the war.

Contents
•1 Origins
•2 Early service in Belgium ◦2.1 Ostend

•3 Gallipoli
•4 Western Front ◦4.1 Ancre
◦4.2 Ypres

•5 Order of battle
•6 Battles
•7 Commanders
•8 See also
•9 References
•10 Sources
•11 Further reading
•12 External links

Origins

Recruiting poster

Following the outbreak of war, a Marine Brigade of four infantry battalions was formed from men of the Royal Marine Light Infantry and Royal Marine Artillery who were not required for service aboard ship. These included both regular active-service Marines as well as those mobilised from the Fleet Reserve. Each battalion was drawn from one of the major naval depot ports - Chatham, Portsmouth, Plymouth, and Deal - and was named accordingly. It was envisaged that this force could be used by the Admiralty to help secure and defend forward ports for naval forces.[1]

Shortly afterwards, it became apparent that there was still a large surplus of mobilised manpower in the Navy itself, and on 17 August a decision was taken by Winston Churchill (then First Lord of the Admiralty) to form eight battalions in two Naval Brigades, which would join with the Marine Brigade to produce a composite Royal Naval Division. While a few petty officers and ratings were transferred from the Navy to provide a cadre, and some officers were provided by the Army, the recruits were almost entirely reservists or men who had volunteered on the outbreak of war. The eight battalions were named for past naval commanders - Drake, Benbow, Hawke, Collingwood, Nelson, Howe, Hood, and Anson - and later numbered 1st to 8th.[1] The division as a whole was not provided with support arms - there were no medical, artillery, or engineer units - and consisted solely of lightly equipped infantry.[2]

The Marine Brigade began training for overseas service in mid-August, and the naval battalions were assembled in Kent towards the end of the month.[1] Training was slow; most resources were needed for the rapid expansion of the Army, and the ratings had not been issued with field equipment or khaki uniforms before being embarked for overseas service. Rifles were drawn from Royal Navy stockpiles, and only arrived at the end of September; these were older Charger-Loading Lee Enfields rather than the more modern Short Magazine Lee-Enfields issued to the Army.[2]

Early service in Belgium

Ostend

The "Race to the Sea" in September–October 1914; the final position of the front-line is west of Ostend. Antwerp is marked by a circle on the right.

Following early defeats in the German invasion of Belgium, and cut off from the rest of the Allies by the German advance, the majority of the Belgian army fell back towards the fortified port of Antwerp during late August 1914. In doing so, Belgian troops were withdrawn from a number of smaller ports along the Belgian coast; the Admiralty was concerned that if these were occupied by Germany, they could provide a base for naval forces to harass ships bringing reinforcements and supplies from England. On 24 August, German cavalry patrols were reported near Ostend, and the decision was taken to land a small naval detachment from the fleet to secure the town.[3]

Further south, the main French and British force was retreating into France, with the German Army driving south-west after them and leaving very few units to guard the lines of communication. Admiralty planners realised that this offered the opportunity of using the Channel ports as a base to attack German supply routes on land, and decided to use the recently formed Royal Marine Brigade as the basis for a landing force. Three battalions (Chatham, Portsmouth & Plymouth; the fourth had not yet formed) were send to Flanders; two landed on the early morning of 27 August and the other the following day. They were ordered to hold the town until Belgian troops who had retreated into France could be shipped in; 4,000 men duly arrived on 30 August.[3]

However, the rapid retreat had caused the British Army to rethink its overall strategy, and it was decided that British supplies would have to be brought through ports in Western France; the existing arrangements in the Pas de Calais were too close to the front line. This would place significant extra strain on the escort ships, which meant that the Navy was no longer able to support the troops landed at Ostend. The Marines were re-embarked on 31 September and returned to their ports.[4]

The division participated in the defence of the Belgian city of Antwerp in late 1914. From Antwerp, 1,500 sailors of the division fled to the neutral Netherlands, where they were interned.[5]

Gallipoli

The division was shipped to Egypt prior to serving in the Battle of Gallipoli.[6] Casualties before the hostilities included officer and poet, Rupert Brooke, who died at sea on 23 April 1915.[7] The division fought on both the Anzac and Helles battlefields.[6]

The RND was one of two British divisions (the other being the Regular Army 29th Division) at the Gallipoli landings. Originally the division was only required to make a diversion at Bulair in support of the main landings at Anzac Cove and Cape Helles. This diversion was carried out by one man, Bernard Freyberg. Shortly afterwards, on 28 April, four battalions were sent to Anzac to reinforce the hard-pressed Australian and New Zealand troops. Later the RND moved to Helles where it remained for the rest of the campaign on the peninsula.

Western Front

Ancre

After the evacuation of Gallipoli, the RND moved to France where it participated in the final phase of the Battle of the Somme, advancing along the River Ancre to capture Beaucourt.

The Division had four objectives during the Battle of Ancre. The first was to capture the "Dotted Green Line", the name given to the front line of the German trench complex. The second objective, the so-called "Green Line", was the road to Beaucourt station. The road ran along a ridge which had been fortified by the Germans. The third objective was a trench which lay beyond the road, around the remains of Beaucourt on its south-west edge, and was named the "Yellow Line". The final objective, the "Red Line", was beyond Beaucourt. Here the Division was to consolidate and solidify the gains made during the battle.[8]

The plan was for the battalions to leap-frog each other towards the final objective. Battalions 1st RMLI, Howe, Hawke and Hood were assigned the "Dotted Green Line" and the "Yellow Line", while battalions 2nd RMLI, Anson, Nelson and Drake were assigned the "Green Line" and the "Red Line". When the battle began in the early hours of the 13th of November, specific platoons from 1 RMLI crawled across no-man's land towards the German line.[9] During this battle, the tactic of the rolling barrage was employed. However, despite the additional cover, significant casualties were sustained in no-man's land during the assault, with estimates of 50% of casualties occurring there before the first German trench had been captured.[9] German artillery fire, coupled with machine gun fire, was so effective that all company commanding officers within 1 RMLI were killed before reaching the first objective.[10]

Due to intense shelling prior to the assault, the German trenches had been significantly damaged. As a result the men became increasingly disoriented, meaning that the initial tactic of leap frogging could not be employed. Lieutenant Colonel Bernard Freyberg quickly realized this and did not wait for Drake battalion as planned. After leading Hood battalion to the "Green Line", he pressed forward with the remaining men of Drake battalion. The station road served as a useful landmark and allowed the commander to orient himself and re-organize the attack. The expected bombardment began at the pre-arranged time of 0730 hours, allowing Freyberg to advance towards the "Yellow Line" at Beaucourt Station.[11]

Meanwhile, Battalions Nelson, Hawke and Howe suffered heavy casualties. Two of the three commanding officers from these battalions were among the early casualties: Lieutenant Colonel Burge of Nelson Battalion was killed whilst attacking a well-fortified section of the "Dotted Green Line" and Lieutenant Colonel Wilson was severely wounded leading an attack on the same target. Another commanding officer, Lieutenant Colonel Saunders, was also killed early in the battle but his battalion, Anson, was more successful, managing to capture the "Green Line". Anson Battalion was then able to advance to the "Yellow Line" after making contact with the 51st Highland Division to its left.[9] By 2230 hours, Beaucourt had officially been captured.[11]

Just prior to the fighting on the Ancre, the division received a new commanding officer after Major General Archibald Paris was wounded, Major General Cameron Shute, appointed on 17 October 1916. General Shute had an intense dislike for the unconventional "nautical" traditions of the division and made numerous unpopular attempts to stamp them out. Following a particularly critical inspection of the trenches by General Shute, an officer of the division, Sub-Lieutenant A. P. Herbert, later to become a famous humorous writer, legal satirist and Member of Parliament, penned a popular poem that summed up the feelings of the men of the RND:[12]

The General inspecting the trenches
Exclaimed with a horrified shout
'I refuse to command a division
Which leaves its excreta about.'

But nobody took any notice
No one was prepared to refute,
That the presence of shit was congenial
Compared to the presence of Shute.

And certain responsible critics
Made haste to reply to his words
Observing that his staff advisors
Consisted entirely of turds.

For shit may be shot at odd corners
And paper supplied there to suit,
But a shit would be shot without mourners
If somebody shot that shit Shute.

Ypres

The Division arrived at Ypres just before the Second Battle of Passchendaele.[13]

[icon] This section requires expansion. (September 2013)

Order of battle

Grave in Cathays Cemetery, Cardiff of a Royal Naval Division able seaman

The division initially comprised eight naval battalions named after famous British naval commanders (Anson, Benbow, Collingwood, Drake, Hawke, Hood, Howe, Nelson), plus the Royal Marine Brigade of four battalions from the Royal Marine dépôts at the ports of Deal, Chatham, Portsmouth and Plymouth.[6]
•1st (Drake) Battalion
•2nd (Hawke) Battalion
•3rd (Benbow) Battalion
•4th (Collingwood) Battalion
•5th (Nelson) Battalion
•6th (Howe) Battalion
•7th (Hood) Battalion
•8th (Anson) Battalion
•9th (Chatham) Battalion RMLI
•10th (Portsmouth) Battalion RMLI
•11th (Plymouth) Battalion RMLI
•12th (Deal) Battalion RMLI

Due to the changing nature of the unit, it was made up of a number of brigades during the war.
1st Royal Naval Brigade Also known as 1st (Royal Naval) Brigade, 1st Brigade (1914 - July 1916). Replaced by the 190th Brigade (July 1916).2nd Royal Naval Brigade Also known as 2nd (Royal Naval) Brigade, 2nd Brigade, 189th Brigade.3rd Royal Marine Brigade Also known as 3rd (Royal Marine) Brigade, 188th Brigade.
As the naval character of the division diminished, more regular infantry battalions were included. Other battalions that served with the division include:
•1st Royal Marines
•2nd Royal Marines
•2nd Battalion, The Royal Irish Regiment
•7th Battalion, Royal Fusiliers
•4th Battalion, The Bedfordshire Regiment
•1/4th Battalion, King's Shropshire Light Infantry
•10th Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers
•1/1st Battalion, Honourable Artillery Company
•2/2nd (City of London) Battalion, The London Regiment
•2/4th (City of London) Battalion, The London Regiment
•1/28th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (Artists' Rifles)

Battles
•Battle of Gallipoli ◦Landing at Anzac Cove (4 battalions)
◦Landing at Cape Helles (2 battalions)
◦Second Battle of Krithia
◦Third Battle of Krithia

Commanders
•1917 - 1918 Major General C. E. Lawrie
•August 1918 Major-General Cyril Aubrey Blacklock

See also
•List of British divisions in WWI
•Naval Brigade

References

1. Corbett (1920), chapter XII
2. Chris Baker, The British Army in the Great War: The 63rd (Royal Naval) Division
3. Corbett (1920), chapter VI
4. Corbett (1920), chapter VIII
5. Baker, Chris (2010). "The 63rd (Royal Naval) Division in 1914-1918". British Divisions. The Long, Long Trail.
6. "Royal Naval Division service records 1914-1919". The National Archives. Retrieved 14 March 2008.
7. Adrian Caesar, ‘Brooke, Rupert Chawner (1887–1915)’, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004; online edn, May 2008
8. Thompson 2001, p. 148.
9. Thompson 2001, pp. 149–151
10. [1][dead link]
11. Hart 2005, pp. 511–517
12. Gilbert, Martin (2006). The Somme. New York: Henry Holt and Company. p. 218.
13. Thompson 2001, pp. 159–163

Sources
•Hart, P. (2005). "The Last Shake on the Ancre". The Somme. Cassell Military Paperbacks. Cassell. ISBN 0-30436-735-4.
•Thompson, J. (2001). The Royal Marines, From Sea Soldiers to a Special Force. London: Pan Books. ISBN 0-33037-702-7.
•Corbett, Julian S (1920). Naval Operations,. History of the Great War based on Official Documents. I: To the Battle of The Falklands December 1914 (London: Longmans, Green & Co.).

Further reading
•Foster, Rev. H. C. (1918). At Antwerp and the Dardanelles. London: Mills & Boon. OCLC 32790523.

External links

Wikimedia Commons has media related to Royal Naval Division.
•"Royal Naval Division service records 1914-1919". The National Archives.
•about the memorial to the RND[dead link]

Divisions of the British Army

 

 

the 63rd (Royal Naval) Division in 1914-1918

The history of 63rd (Royal Naval) Division

1914

At the declaration of the war on 4 August 1914, there was a surplus of some 20-30,000 men of the reserves of the Royal Navy who would not find jobs on any ship of war. It was recognised that this was sufficient to form two Naval Brigades and a Brigade of Marines for operations on land.

The defence of Antwerp (4-10 October 1914)

PosterThe Royal Marine Brigade was formed at once and was moved to Oostende on 27 August 1914, although it returned four days later. On 20 September it arrived at Dunkirk with orders to assist in the defence of Antwerp. The two other Brigades moved to Dunkirk for the same purpose on 5 October 1914. In the haste to organise and move the units to Belgium, 80% went to war without even basic equipment such as packs, mess tins or water bottles. No khaki uniform was issued. The two Naval Brigades were armed with ancient charger-loading rifles, just three days before embarking. The Division was orginally titled the Royal Naval Division, and was formed in England in September 1914. At this stage, it had no artillery, Field Ambulances or other ancillary units.

RND units that managed to successfully withdraw from Antwerp returned to England, arriving 11 October 1914. Approximately 1,500 troops of the 1st Royal Naval Brigade crossed the Dutch frontier to escape from Antwerp and were interned in the Netherlands.

 

1915

After a lengthy period of refit and training (scattered in various locations, and still short of many of the units that ordinarily made up the establishment of a Division), the Division moved to Egypt preparatory to the Gallipoli campaign.

The deployment of the RMLI to Gallipoli

Gallipoli

1916

By the end of the Division's part in the Gallipoli campaign, very few men with sea service remained. The Division transferred from the authority of the Admiralty to the War Office on 29 April 1916 and was redesignated as the 63rd (Royal Naval) Division on 19 July 1916. The Division moved to France, arriving Marseilles 12-23 May 1916, after which it remained on the Western Front for the rest of the war and took part in the following engagements:

The Battle of the Ancre, a phase of the Battles of the Somme 1916 (13-18 November 1916)

1917

The Operations on the Ancre (January-March 1917)

The Second Battle of the Scarpe (23-24 April 1917), a phase of the Arras Offensive, in which the Division captured Gavrelle

The Battle of Arleux (28-29 April 1917), a phase of the Arras Offensive

The Second Battle of Passchendaele (26 October - 10 November 1917), a phase of the Third Battles of Ypres 1917

The action of Welsh Ridge (30 December 1917), subsequent to the Cambrai operations

1918

The Battle of St Quentin~ (21-23 March 1918)
The Battle of Bapaume~ (24-25 March 1918)
~ the battles marked ~ are phases of the First Battles of the Somme 1918

The Battle of Albert (21-23 August 1918), a phase of the Second Battles of the Somme 1918

The Battle of Drocourt-Queant (2-3 September 1918), a phase of the Second Battles of Arras 1918

The Battle of the Canal du Nord^ (27 September - 1 October 1918)
The Battle of Cambrai 1918^ (8-9 October 1918)
^ the battles marked ^ are phases of the Battles of the Hindenburg Line

The passage of the Grand Honelle (5-7 November 1918), a phase of the Final Advance in Picardy

This unique Division was demobilised in France by April 1919. It had suffered over 47,900 casualties.

The order of battle of the 63rd (Royal Naval) Division

1st Royal Naval Brigade Established in August 1914. By April 1915 it was known as 1st (Royal Naval) Brigade. Redesignated as 1st Brigade on 2 August 1915. The Brigade was broken up on 2 July 1916, the staff joining the 3rd (Royal Marine) Brigade.
1st (Drake) Bn left May 1916
2nd (Hawke) Bn left May 1916
3rd (Benbow) Bn disbanded 9 June 1915
4th (Collingwood) Bn left 30 May 1915
5th (Nelson) Bn joined April 1915, left May 1916
7th (Hood) Bn joined August 1915, split into 1/Hood and 2/Hood Bns during the period 1 June - 5 July 1916, left July 1916
12th (Deal) Bn joined 12 March 1915, left 30 May 1915
2/4th Bn, the London Regiment joined October 1915, left January 1916
188th Machine Gun Company joined 12 May 1917 as 224th Machine Gun Company, left for 189th Bde 19 June 1917

2nd Royal Naval Brigade Established in August 1914. By April 1915 it was known as 2nd (Royal Naval) Brigade. In July 1915, the Brigade was broken up. It reformed on 2 August 1915 and was redesignated 2nd Brigade. It was further redesignated the 2nd (Royal Naval) Brigade on 7 July 1916, and on 19 July 1916, became 189th Brigade.
5th (Nelson) Bn left for 1st Bde April 1915, rejoined May 1916
6th (Howe) Bn left July 1916
7th (Hood) Bn left for 1st Bde 2 August 1915, rejoined July 1916
8th (Anson) Bn left May 1916
Chatham & Deal Bn two RMLI Bns that amalgamated and joined 2 August 1915, was renamed 1st Bn, the Royal Marines ten days later, left May 1916
Portsmouth & Plymouth Bn two RMLI Bns that amalgamated and joined 2 August 1915, was renamed 2nd Bn, the Royal Marines ten days later, left May 1916
2/2nd Bn, the London Regiment joined October 1915, left January 1916
2nd (Hawke) Bn joined from 1st Bde May 1916
4th (Collingwood) Bn joined from 1st Bde 30 May 1915, disbanded 9 June 1915
1st (Drake) Bn joined from 1st Bde 5 July 1916
189th Machine Gun Company joined from 1st Bde 12 June 1917, moved to 63rd Bn MGC 1 March 1918
189th Trench Mortar Battery joined 21 July 1916

Royal Marine Brigade Established in August 1914. By April 1915 it was known as 3rd (Royal Marine) Brigade. On 2 August 1915, the four Bns of the Brigade were reorganised into two; these units were then transferred to the 2nd Bde and the Royal Marine Brigade ceased to exist.
Royal Marine "A" Bn left 31 August 1914
9th (Chatham) Bn amalgamated and left for 1st Bde 2 August 1915
10th (Portsmouth) Bn amalgamated and left for 1st Bde 2 August 1915
11th (Plymouth) Bn amalgamated and left for 1st Bde 2 August 1915
12th (Deal) Bn joined 31 August 1914, left 12 March 1915, rejoined 30 May 1915, amalgamated and left for 1st Bde 2 August 1915

3rd (Royal Marine) Brigade On arrival in France on 22 May 1916, the Royal Marine Brigade was reformed. On 7 July 1916, with the staff of the 1st Brigade, it was redesignated the 1st (Royal Naval) Brigade. it was again redesignated as 188th Brigade on 19 July 1916
8th (Anson) Bn joined from 2nd Bde May 1916
1st Royal Marines joined May 1916
2nd Royal Marines joined May 1916
6th (Howe) Bn joined from 2nd Bde July 1916
188th Machine Gun Company original company joined 4 August 1916, transferred to Base Depot 17 May 1917. 223rd MG Company arrived 8 May 1917 initially for 189th Bde, but transferred to 188th Bde 12 June 1917 and was redesignated. Moved into 63 MG Bn 1 March 1918
188th Trench Mortar Battery joined 21 July 1916
2nd Bn, the Royal Irish Regiment joined 23 April 1918

190th Brigade formed in France in July 1916
7th Bn, the Royal Fusiliers joined 27 July 1916
4th Bn, the Bedfordshire Regiment joined July 1916
1/1st Bn, the Honourable Artillery Company joined July 1916, left 29 June 1917
10th Bn, the Royal Dublin Fusiliers joined 19 August 1916, left 23 June 1917
190th Machine Gun Company joined July 1916, moved to 63rd Bn MGC 1 March 1918
190th Trench Mortar Battery joined 25 July 1916
1/28th Bn, the London Regiment joined 28 June 1917
1/4th Bn, the King's Shropshire Light Infantry joined 18 August 1917, left 4 February 1918

Divisional Troops
Armoured Motor Machine-Gun Squadron joined 17 March 1915, left late May 1915
14th Bn, the Worcestershire Regiment joined as Divisional Pioneer Bn 21 June 1916
223rd Machine Gun Company joined 7 September 1917, moved to 63rd Bn MGC 1 March 1918
63rd Battalion MGC formed 1 March 1918

Divisional Mounted Troops
RN Divisional Cyclist Company broken up June 1916

Divisional Artillery Note: the artillery, which had been with the 63rd (2nd Northumbrian) Division, joined on 5 July 1916
CCXXIII (I/IV Home Counties) (How) Bde, RFA joined 9 June 1916, broken up 26 July 1916
CCCXV (2/I Northumbrian) Brigade, RFA joined 5 July 1916, left 11 February 1917
CCCXVI (2/II Northumbrian) Brigade, RFA joined 5 July 1916, broken up 31 August 1916
CCCXVII (2/III Northumbrian) Brigade, RFA joined 5 July 1916
CCCXVIII (2/IV Northumbrian) (How) Bde, RFA joined 5 July 1916
63rd Divisional Ammunition Column RFA joined 5 July 1916
V.63 Heavy Trench Mortar Battery, RFA joined from 29 July 1916, when a single weapon arrived; broken up 2 February 1918
X.63, Y.63 and Z.63 Medium Mortar Batteries, RFA joinedf 5 July 1916; on 2 February 1918, Z broken up and batteries reorganised to have 6 x 6-inch weapons each

Royal Engineers
RE Detachment 2 officers and 32 other ranks arrived France with the Royal Marine Brigade on 20 September 1914
247th Field Company Originally No 1 Company, joined before embarkation for Gallipoli; On 1 February 1917, it transferred to the Corps of Royal Engineers, and was redesignated
248th Field Company as 247th. Originally No 2 Company
249th Field Company as 247th. Originally No 3 Company
63rd Divisional Signals Company

Royal Army Medical Corps Note: These units were redesignated as, for example, 1st (Royal Naval) Field Ambulance, on arrival in France
No 1 Field Ambulance
No 2 Field Ambulance
No 3 Field Ambulance
Royal Naval Sanitary Section joined in Egypt 30 March 1915; remained in Egypt when Division moved to France
63rd Sanitary Section formed 31 May 1916, left for First Army area 8 April 1917

Other Divisional Troops
RND Divisional Train ASC joined in Egypt 26 March 1915, the two original Companies left 15 March 1916; replaced by complete Divisional Train in France 14 June 1916. Train renumbered 63rd on 19 July 1916, composed of 761, 762, 763 and 764 Companies ASC.
19th Mobile Veterinary Section AVC joined 31 March 1915, left 18 February 1916
53rd Mobile Veterinary Section AVC joined 18 June 1916

There are memorials to the 63rd (Royal Naval) Division at Beaucourt (Somme), Gavrelle (Arras) and on Horse Guards Parade, London.

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Hi Peter,

 

welcome back , it's great the amount of work you do to keep the memory of the RND alive :thumbsup:

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Hi Peter,

 

welcome back , it's great the amount of work you do to keep the memory of the RND alive :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: thank you ,

I went to ypres on the 11th -11th 2014 to lay a wreath on my RND groups behalf

I was really proud to be able to do something and participate in the 20,00 hrs ceremony

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  • 2 years later...

Hi Sommewalker & Comrades,

I found this website this morning after a google search on the Royal Naval Division and the Royal Marines. I've read a bit of your interesting post and may read more at a later date when I have more time. Back in 2007 I wrote to the RM Museum (and visited in 2009). Here's part of their reply -

If it transpires the subject of your research was part of the Royal Naval Division (the Royal Marines contributed two Battalions and numerous NCO's to this unit for service in Belgium, Gallipoli and France 1914-18)

I would really like to know if it is possible to ascertain if my ancestor was part of those two RM battalions? I have his service records and other papers from the National Archives. He enlisted in the RMA in 1891 and was an RMA Pensioner before WWl started. He re-enlisted in the RMA in 1914. However, none of his records state where he was posted to. He continued his service until 1925. I am currently writing a Biographical Essay about him for my university course, with particular interest in the his invovelment with the RMA during 1914 - 1918. He achieved 6 Good Conduct medals and the usual Long Service medal and was awarded a British War medal. Does that lack of other 1914 - 1918 war medals mean he wasn't posted abroad? I am aware that pensioners filled the shoes of ratings so that the ratings could go on active service. I find it hard to believe that at 41 years old he was deemed too old to go to war and fight as a gunner for King and country. On one of the documents from TNA it states In red hand writing and underlined in red ink.-

Served in HM Ships & Shore Establishments under War Conditions.

 Also in red it numerically states that he served for 4 years and 52 days during the Great War. But it doesn't state the names of the HM ships and shore establishments on his service records. There must be an HMS log book or two somewhere with his name on it but it's not at TNA at Kew to my knowledge! One of his service records indicates that he served with the Royal Fleet Reserve. Is RMAR 01083 the needle in the haystack that I'm looking for? How can I find out more, please? My essay is due soon and at this stage I am struggling to put the pieces of the puzzle together and am well short of the required word limit. We have to write about our serviceman in the context of his unit or battalion. I can't write that he was with his battalion loading Howitzers in Antwerp if he was involved in training younger RMA Gunners at Deal, Kent. I need to pass this unit or I'm sunk! I've attached the relevant part of his rather long, but poorly detailed, service record.

Your assistance would be greatly appreciated. TIA.

Kind regards,

Em

RFRFWHowell.jpg

RFRFWHowell579.jpg

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Hi Em, 

welcome to the forum, Peter is not on-line as often as he used to be but perhaps some of the others can help.  

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Hi, Thanks so much for your reply and welcome. :) Ok, I look forward to some replies in due course.

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Hello Em

sorry for the delay  

from what I can see from the  scans of his documents you've shown,

unfortunately the top is missing ?

if I could see his service number which would have been at the top of his documents and his name etc was there also  I could see if I could maybe,

find his medal index card ?  that would tell us more on his medal  entitlements,

or if you could provide a full length scan of his docs that would help

I don't have access to ancestry  etc as I find it to pricey ,

but from what I can see,

he was mobilised in Jan 14  so its very likely  he would have been given the mons  star the british war medal and the victory medal ,

which differs from the so called 1914-15  star as it has aug / nov on it  which means he would have been ,

 part of the BEF (british expeditionary force) that went to france

and mons was the first real battle fought between us and the germans

I have put in a link about the RMA which I hope will be useful

http://www.1914-1918.net/rma.htm

if you could provide a full scan of his docs  it might help

but trying to trace an individuals history isn't a quick job ,

and can take hours or weeks  to find anything ,

hope this helps

peter

MONS STAR A.jpg

WW1 TRIO A.jpg

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Hi Peter,

Thank you very much for your reply. I had to pay for his service records from the National Archives. So I do not wish to put them on a public forum such as this, no offence intended. I think you have the wrong chap. Mine was mobilised in Aug 1914 when he re-enlisted as a already retired RMA Pensioner. It seemed he was only awarded the British War Medal. I found that document from a digital scan of a book on Ancestry. I have free access as a uni student through our uni. Ancestry doesn't have any other War related documents of his. I recently paid a researcher £20 and he copied some documents for me at Kew (TNA).

Even with the extra 17 pages his actual role during the 4 years and 52 days that he served 1914 - 1919 remains a mystery. One document states in red that he Served in HM Ships & Shore Establishments under War Conditions. Nil away from Head Quarters. But that doesn't tell me what he did during that period. I'm assuming that's the RMA Head Quarters at Eastney. Maybe he just did his bit for the war effort at the East and West Eastney batteries guarding his homeland. Another document has a word partially hidden due to the fold on the page. It refers to him enlisting for Special S_____ Was there an RM or RMA Special Service during the Great War?

Thanks for the link. I was already in the process of reading that webpage, when I received notification of your reply, having only just found it tonight. It does help me a bit to see the big picture of the various RM deployments but so far I've not found anything indicating what the re-enlisted pensioners actually did.  My essay is supposed to be as much about teamwork as it is about the individual. I'd be delighted to know more about the RMA pensioners who weren't quite Dad's Army.

Kind regards,

Em

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well ill say this if he was mobilised as you say in august 1914 , he would have got the  1914/15 star  at the very least , and the british war medal and the victory medal,  that's  the rule  everybody who served at home or abroad in the forces got those 3 !! 

if he went overseas  soon after joining then possibly the mons star ,

unless they enlisted after 1915 then they  only got the British war medal and the victory medal,

that's fact ! , even civilians got the victory medal the gold coloured one ,

there were no RMA special services  as in SAS type  groups in ww1  it wasn't till ww2 that  commandos or the SAS  were  born  so to speak,   being ex military myself , ex RNR (ROYAL NAVY )  I have experience of the way things are done, if as you say he was. as you say  One document states in red that he Served in HM Ships & Shore Establishments under War Conditions. Nil away from Head Quarters, then possibly a clerk or admin,

but either way he would have got 3 medals !  the special bit could refer to duties ? as you say manning port defences, if so as an active soldier he would have drawn pay and rations !. without seeing  the top part of his service docs , my hands are tied if you want my or our help then you have to  give more than scraps of information like scans  with no  idea of who I/we are looking for ,  even though you call him a re inlisted pensioner at  the age of 41 I think you said ?   then he would have been classed as a serving soldier ,

not a pensioner , possibly as a reservist if he left before ww1 and was called back to the colours ,

its very easy to get a load of papers and draw the wrong conclusion, from them ,

you must remember that these are  100year old papers, and back then things were not as rigid as today

mistakes were very common  and not an isolated thing

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Thank you very much for your reply. I didn't ask you to look for him. It was a general request regarding any re-enlisted Royal Marine who was previously a pensioner before 1914. He was  never a soldier. According to the documentation I've found, he only received the British medal. I've searched repeatedly yet not found his medal card on any website. He re-enlisted before the call up. For the purpose of this university course, and in the absence of records stating his exact location, I was told that I can speculate as to his whereabouts. So I can state, Royal Fleet Reserve, Antwerp, Deal or Eastney etc. I'll talk to Dad tomorrow, he's ex-RN. Cheers. Em

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Hi Em,

you won't find his medal index card on any website, this is something you need to send off for, but if you have already paid someone to get his service records from the National Archives, then you should already have his medal index card. This will tell you exactly his medal entitlement which was why Peter was asking and you should then be able to work out where he served. If he was only awarded the British War Medal  and served Nil away from Head Quarters, then it sounds to me like he spent the war at Head Quarters. This would be the most likely case anyway if he was a pensioner. Here is what the medal index card looks like, hope this helps.   

medalcard.jpg

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Cheers Kenny, I know what medal cards look like because some of them are Results 1–50 of 72,476 just for Smith available on the Ancestry website. Here's one I just downloaded. He's not related to me as far as I know. Some of the medal cards are also available to download for a £ fee at TNA website, but not the one I want and he's also not on IWM https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org neither is another ancestor of mine, but his records may be among the WO 363, but I've downloaded at least 15 pages of his brother's records & documents. Anyway, Dad gave me enough information to fill in some blanks. Mainly that the RMA chap would have been training younger men during WWl. Thanks again.   

30850_A000240-02748.jpg

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The researcher I paid didn't seem to know much, I asked him about pay books but he didn't go looking beyond the folio numbers I gave him. Hence, I won't be employing him again. 

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No problem Em, Yes I agree most likely he would have been training younger men at Headquarters. Glad we got there in the end :thumbsup:  

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  • 1 year later...

A related question: my Great Grandfather (Alfred Douglas Wallace) served with the RMLI & it appears from his service record (attached) he went to France with the BEF. Then there’s an entry he was with the MEF from 8 May 1918 to 12 Feb 1919. Does anyone know what this means? Where would he have been posted these dates?

cheers

ADM-159-178-2076.pdf

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On 14/05/2017 at 20:10, kenny andrew said:

No problem Em, Yes I agree most likely he would have been training younger men at Headquarters. Glad we got there in the end :thumbsup:  

Yes we did, thanks Kenny. I passed that unit too. 😎

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9 hours ago, sweft said:

A related question: my Great Grandfather (Alfred Douglas Wallace) served with the RMLI & it appears from his service record (attached) he went to France with the BEF. Then there’s an entry he was with the MEF from 8 May 1918 to 12 Feb 1919. Does anyone know what this means? Where would he have been posted these dates?

cheers

ADM-159-178-2076.pdf

Hi, I googled it for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Expeditionary_Force 

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