Jump to content

British & Commonwealth WW1 & WW2 Brodie Helmet Maker Stamps


leon21

Recommended Posts

Steel Trademarks or Suppliers Brand Names of Steel Used in WW1 are as follows.

 

Vickers. Ltd of Sheffield. = ( Trademark. ( None ).

T.Firth & Sons Ltd Sheffield. = ( Trademark ( image of a Windmill ).

Edgar.Allen & Co Sheffield . = ( Trademark ( the word Imperial within a Diamond shape ).

W. Beardmore & Co Glasgow. = ( Trademark ( None ).

W.& E Viener Ltd Sheffield = ( Trademark. ( the word Resilco ).

S. Osborne & Co Sheffield = ( Trademark. ( Hand & Heart Image ).

J. & J. Maxfield & Sons Ltd. = ( Trademark ( the word Beaver or a Beaver Image ).

Hadfields Co Ltd = ( Trademark. ( the word Heclon ).

J. Dixon & Sons Ltd Sheffield. = ( Trademark ( a Trumpet Image ).

Bury's & Co Ltd Sheffield. = ( Trademark. ( a Image of a Lion lying down ).

Hutton & Sons Ltd Sheffield. = ( Trademark ( None ).

Harrison Bros & Howson Ltd Sheffield. = ( Trademark ( the word Alpha under a Crown Image ).

J. Round & Sons Ltd Sheffield. = ( Trademark ( a Globe within a Lifebelt Image ).

Miris Steel Co Ltd London. = ( Trademark ( The word Myrys in a circle ).

 

Not all these suppliers stamped these marks on their steel but some have been found on steel helmets, if you find one

on a helmet then it's a bonus.

 

Here's a photo of the Trademark ( Resilco ) of W.& E Viener Ltd found on back of a spoonpost-3823-0-95306700-1477039201_thumb.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Brodie Helmet and Liner Variants, ( A Guide How to date your Helmet ).

 

In June 1915 the Brodie helmet type A was approved by the War Office Inventions Dept and production started immediately,

the helmet was rimless and was painted a smooth dark green colour, the leather chinstrap was attached to the helmet brim

and the oilcloth liner was held in place to the skull of the helmet by a single rivet and a felt pad was fitted to the skull interior.

This helmet was commonly known as "Helmet Steel Mark 1" and also referred as "Brodie's Steel Helmet, War Office Pattern".

The liners were stamped with a Red Patent stamp, which read "Brodie's Steel Helmet Registration No 65199 War Office

Pattern Patent No 11803/16 and made by the Army and Navy Co-op Society Westminster in which Mr Brodie had an Interest

 

In 1916 several improvements were made a formed rim was added to the outer brim, and a new liner was utilezed, on the

new liner there was a leather strap which was riveted to the top of the skull shell over a asbestos pad, liner and felt pad to

hold them in place, the chinstrap was held by brass loops riveted to the brim with split rivets.

also a net was fitted with draw string added to the liner for a better fit, the helmets were to be painted in a non- reflective

Kharki - Sand Paint. Some type A rimless shells were reused and fitted with the new Mark 1 Liner.

 

In 1917 a further improvement was made by introducing a rubber ring under the skull pad this would prevent a direct impact

on the wearers helmet from being transmitted to the skull.

At the same time the habit of painting the unit's formation patch onto the front or sides of the helmet began.

 

In 1936 the MK1 helmet was fitted with a new an improved liner and a new elasticated or sprung webbing chinstrap added,

this final variant served until 1939/40 when it was superseded by the slightly modified MK2 variant and also the helmet and

liners were date stamped.

 

Pic 1/2 of a 1915 Brodie rimless shell and liner.

Pic 3. of a 1916 improved liner fitted to a rimless shell.

Pic 4. of a 1917 added rubber ring improvement.

Pic 5. of a 1936 improved liner.

Pic 6. of a 1938 dated shell and liner.

Pic 7. of a 1941 dated shell and liner MK2.attachicon.gifBrodie 1915 Oilcloth Liner.jpgattachicon.gifBrodie 1915 Liner inner pad.jpgattachicon.gifBrodie 1916 inproved Liner.jpgattachicon.gifBrodie 1917 rubber ring added.jpgattachicon.gifbrodie 1936 Liner variant.jpgattachicon.gifBrodie Shell and Liner dated 1938.JPGattachicon.gifBrodie Shell and Liner dated 1941.jpg

 

Thank you for this information and the list of manufacturers. Have you ever come across any documentary evidence about the type and colour of paint that was used for the upgraded Mk I helmets in 1936 (the Mk I*?) or by companies manufacturing the new Mk II helmet for Army use? It is hard to find such information.

 

Andrew

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to the forum Andrew,

 

The standard factory finish colour for the MKI* and MKII Brodie Helmet was a Smooth Olive Green for the Army, they were

later supplied with a Olive Drab Camo Net during WW2 for use in Europe and Italy.

Helmets for the Navy were factory finished in black, and the RAF would be hand painted Blue/Grey on the outer surface of

the helmet leaving the inside Green.

Helmets for use in N Africa were painted in a rough textured sand colour.

 

Australian made MKII Helmets were painted in sand textured Australian Army Kharki-Green No 3.

 

S. African made MKII Helmets were either painted Olive Green or rough textured sand colour.

 

Canadian Made MKII were painted Olive or dark Green in colour.

 

No information on type of paint used.

 

Hope this helps.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry Andrew I should have remembered this earlier being an ex paint sprayer  the type of paint used is

Industrial Stoving Enamel paint.

Were you would dip or spray the helmets hang them on racks and wheel them into a Industrial Baking/Drying Oven

and bake them at high temperature.

The process is called Stove Enameling, which gave a high quality tough durable finish. If you watch the short video on

page 1 of this post you can see the process in action.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, the video is well worth watching.

 

So looking at 1939/40 that would be stove enamelling for new, Mk II helmets. Do you think the upgrade of Mk I to Mk I* involve repainting? If it did, I guess stove enamelling was also a possibility there.

 

Andrew.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure on the repainting, but they reused stocks of Brodie and MK.1 bodies and fitted the new liner and suspension straps

and frequently a non-magnetic rim, they also fitted a square non-magnetic MK.1 chin-strap lug which was attached by a

large domed machine-rivet, and some times used MK.11 chin-strap lugs that had the top corners cut off.

Brodie MK.1* and MK.11s were reused sometimes during WW2 and I'm sure many were repainted at some stage.

 

here is a photo of a MK.11 that has been reused, first painted in a textured sand colour then repainted olive green, you can

see the sand colour showing through were the green has chipped away.post-3823-0-78026300-1434546339_thumb.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello all. I have a Brodie helmet that has been refinished (new liner, new paint) the only markings I can find are "60E" and a "1942" I have tried to add photos but the iPhone and I don't get on well. Any ideas who the manufacturer is. Thanks

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to the forum Willj.

 

Not seen this stamp mark before, could just be a steel supplier batch number stamp mark, not all manufacturers marked

their helmets during ww2.

Some home front police helmets only have a batch number stamp and date mark, would need to see a photo of the

underside of helmet.

 

Kenny might be able to help you with sending a iPhone photo.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

welcome to the forum Willj, if you email the pictures to the shop I will post them for you :thumbsup:

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Here's a nice Brodie helmet we just got in which belonged to Colonel Frederick Gordon Blair Aide De Camp To King George V. It also has a rare carrying case for the Brodie which we have never seen before.   

Brodie helmet and personal Effects Of Colonel Frederick Gordon Blair Aide De Camp To King George V 

Frederick Gordon Blair was born on 11 November 1852 the son of Captain W F Blair R.N. of Blair, Dalry, Ayrshire,Scotland. He was educated at Harrow School (The Grove) from Easter 1867 to Easter 1868. Blair was commissioned as a Sub Lieutenant in the 14th (King’s) Hussars on 26 March 1873. He transferred to the 16th Lancers in 1874. 

He joined the Ayrshire Yeomanry in 1870 before joining 14th Hussars in 1873 with whom he went to India then served in the 16th Lancers from 1874-81 then joining the Leicestershire Yeomanry in 1881 and became commandant in 1895-1905.He was commander of 4th Battalion Imperial Yeomanry during the 2nd Boer War 1899-1902 and was mentioned in dispatches.In 1902 a party was sent to London to represent the regiment at the coronation of Edward VII. On this occasion, Colonel Blair, riding abreast with other officers of the Militia and Volunteers, had the honour of representing the entire yeomanry force in the King's procession from Buckingham palace. In 1906, he became the regiments third Honorary Colonel after the death of Colonel Baillie. 

In 1914 Colonel Blair became Aide de Camp to King George V serving until 1920. 

s-l1600 (2).jpg

s-l1600 (3).jpg

s-l1600 (5).jpg

s-l1600 (6).jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of his other items personal effects. 

s-l1600 (1).jpg

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600 (10).jpg

s-l1600 (9).jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also the red Brodie stamp from inside the helmet, his boots and the sales catalogue from the from 2012 from the sale of the Blair estate, Blair House, Scotland. 

s-l1600 (4).jpg

s-l1600 (7).jpg

s-l1600 (8).jpg

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The helmet looks like the 1916 variant, has it got any maker stamp marks, I must admit I've never seen the Brodie carrying case before an excellent

find Kenny. :thumbsup:

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Colin, it does have stamps but from memory they were very faint, I'll double check when I'm back in the shop on Tuesday. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Colin,

here are the stamps, they are very faint but looks like

either an E or an F with a line underneath and the numbers 588  ?

stamp.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like an early made helmet by T. Firth & Sons of Sheffield 1916 -1918 who also used a letter "F" mark, the 588  being the batch number.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent Colin, yes it does look like an F :thumbsup:  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Kenny Andrew featured this topic
  • 3 months later...
  • 1 month later...

I have one which is marked  B S 2 the B is over the top of the S and 2 to the right of it, i picked it up many years ago from a steam rally for silly pocket money ! still got £2.00 change from a tenner !

28337623_10155586544518922_5494457503844336788_o.jpg

28424285_10155586545018922_1707473121170654705_o.jpg

28424543_10155586546938922_4828594349852782944_o.jpg

28424138_10155586546063922_5333116063913438775_o.jpg

28514384_10155586547488922_3078536969635920099_o.jpg

28700683_10155586547813922_1691738188364834840_o.jpg

28423707_10155589602568922_320825958090691071_o.jpg

Edited by Jacquiblue
extra info and image of stamping
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That looks like a WW1 type (rimless and with leather chinstrap), these are very valuable nowadays, esp. in such good condition.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Kenny Andrew changed the title to British & Commonwealth WW1 & WW2 Brodie Helmet Maker Stamps

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...